providers for phone line & internet
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@scottalanmiller said:
@LAH3385 said:
This will be a great talk with my boss. Maybe I should start preparing to jump ship in worst case scenario.
We just spent 40K on the whole system.Just explain sunk cost fallacy to him ahead of time to make sure his head is in the right place.
"Just spent" six years ago, right?
No. That last last year.
We moved to our new office back in the end of 2010. That is when we got into Logix and 3COM phone system. However, before Logix contract is over our 3COM system was dying. So we have to switch over to different system which also accommodate Logix PRI. The decision for new phone system was made in around mid of last year. So we had the phone system for less than a year per se.
Even if it is sunk cost we just do not have the resource to overhaul right away.It os a mistake that must be fix. But doing so I might prepare my resume and ready to move on at the same time.
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@LAH3385 said:
Even if it is sunk cost we just do not have the resource to overhaul right away.
But an overhaul would likely be free, right? Why are you assuming that there would be a cost other than the savings potential from not paying for the NEC support?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@LAH3385 said:
No. That last last year.
Oh
I was a series of bad timing. Everything was falling apart and we need to act fast.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@LAH3385 said:
Even if it is sunk cost we just do not have the resource to overhaul right away.
But an overhaul would likely be free, right? Why are you assuming that there would be a cost other than the savings potential from not paying for the NEC support?
Because, when I checked with VOIP.ms we need a complete different phone system as they do not support NEC. So at the very least we will need a Phone to begin with.
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@LAH3385 said:
I was a series of bad timing. Everything was falling apart and we need to act fast.
This is what I would think was a series of cascading decisions each one building on the one before it. The Logic PRI was a huge mistake six years ago, causing the need for a legacy phone system. Then when that died you already had a PRI and the decision was to invest in technical debt. Which, in a way, dug the hole deeper.
What should have happened, if you were stuck with a PRI, is getting a PRI to SIP gateway which is a simple device that turns the PRI into SIP (and in reality, the provider likely would have happily taken out the device turning SIP into PRI and made it that much better anyway) and then you could have build a free, modern system internally and been ready for whatever the future would bring.
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@LAH3385 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@LAH3385 said:
Even if it is sunk cost we just do not have the resource to overhaul right away.
But an overhaul would likely be free, right? Why are you assuming that there would be a cost other than the savings potential from not paying for the NEC support?
Because, when I checked with VOIP.ms we need a complete different phone system as they do not support NEC. So at the very least we will need a Phone to begin with.
I thought you said the phones are SIP?
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Things that I am assuming:
- That the NEC has negative value and is actively hurting you (e.g. the sooner you remove it, the better.)
- That a replacement system is likely free (because some of the best ones are, definitely way better than an NEC or a legacy system, since the NEC is "good enough", a free PBX is going to be worlds beyond what you have today.)
- Moving from Logix to someone like voip.ms will cost negative money (e.g. you pay less, not more and therefore make money.)
So the tighter you are on money, the more you want to overhaul right away, right?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Things that I am assuming:
- That the NEC has negative value and is actively hurting you (e.g. the sooner you remove it, the better.)
It is not hurting. Just a burden. We paid in full not lease. It does hurt the more people we add to the company.
- That a replacement system is likely free (because some of the best ones are, definitely way better than an NEC or a legacy system, since the NEC is "good enough", a free PBX is going to be worlds beyond what you have today.)
I will have to look more into it but I do not think NEC phones capable of going full VOIP with SIP. I will have to call around to a workable solution.
- Moving from Logix to someone like voip.ms will cost negative money (e.g. you pay less, not more and therefore make money.)
So the tighter you are on money, the more you want to overhaul right away, right?
Yes it will be MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper. Maybe about half or more than what we are paying right now. Still... Since NEC phone isn't support we will have to provide our own phone system.
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Do you have a model number for one of your phones? Generally if they can do SIP they can do any SIP.
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Providing your own phone system is the least expensive part (essentially free other then time). You may or may not have to purchase new phones but like you said if you are looking at saving half of your PRI costs per year you need to look at the pay back on phone investment.
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@coliver said:
Do you have a model number for one of your phones? Generally if they can do SIP they can do any SIP.
There are 2 models listed. Not sure which one exactly
- DT-800 series - ITZ-12DG-3
- ZV (XDG) W-3Y (BK) << this one has Model: right next to it.
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Yes, those are IP phones... no they don't look like SIP phones, at least they don't mention it anywhere in the documentation.
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@LAH3385 said:
It is not hurting. Just a burden. We paid in full not lease. It does hurt the more people we add to the company.
There is no support cost?
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@LAH3385 said:
I will have to look more into it but I do not think NEC phones capable of going full VOIP with SIP. I will have to call around to a workable solution.
That might be the case. Those legacy PBXs are designed from top to bottom to lock you in and raise costs. They are pure evil.
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@LAH3385 said:
Yes it will be MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper. Maybe about half or more than what we are paying right now. Still... Since NEC phone isn't support we will have to provide our own phone system.
- PBX are free. So that should be a none issue.
- Softphones are free. You can always go that route.
- Desk phones start around $80 if you want brand new hardware.
Even building from scratch, the only major cost of a new phone system is often just the optional handset costs.
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Interestingly the NEC phones that you mentioned support SIP and RTP encryption without actually mentioning SIP support. Not sure how that works.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@LAH3385 said:
Yes it will be MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper. Maybe about half or more than what we are paying right now. Still... Since NEC phone isn't support we will have to provide our own phone system.
- PBX are free. So that should be a none issue.
- Softphones are free. You can always go that route.
- Desk phones start around $80 if you want brand new hardware.
Even building from scratch, the only major cost of a new phone system is often just the optional handset costs.
Desk phones are not culturally optional, even if they are technically optional. Even then, soft phones may be free, but you still have to buy headsets. Any decent USB headset will be nearly $50
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@scottalanmiller said:
@LAH3385 said:
It is not hurting. Just a burden. We paid in full not lease. It does hurt the more people we add to the company.
There is no support cost?
There is support cost but only if we request. Other than that it is no cost. It is more like extended service labor cost
This is what I got from NEC tech.
Your system is compatible with SIP trunks. You would have to buy licenses though, one time charge.
In general, PRI is more reliable and has guaranteed call quality. You can get a PRI from any carrier that services your address and use it with the card you already have.
If you get SIP trunks from anyone other than your ISP you give up the ability to hold anyone accountable for call quality. Your ISP will blame the SIP trunk provider. The SIP trunk provider will blame the ISP. If you have a high level of bandwidth it may not be an issue, but no one will guarantee anything. NEC has certified the 9100 to work with several SIP trunk providers. You can get SIP trunks from an uncertified provider but NEC will not guarantee compatibility and troubleshooting won't be covered under warranty.
@JaredBusch said:
Desk phones are not culturally optional, even if they are technically optional. Even then, soft phones may be free, but you still have to buy headsets. Any decent USB headset will be nearly $50
I am dealing with users who have issue unable to open a document because it is unsupported (.page) and thought restart will solve the issue. Or when a folder takes couple seconds to load due to thousands of files in that folder and say she needs a new monitor. Softphone would be witchcraft to them.
