Everything That There Is To Know About VDI Licensing with Windows

Dashrender

But RDS has never been a part of the picture

at least in regards to licenses, from what you're saying.

Assuming you're using the RDP client to connect, you're using the RDS technology to show the GUI on the client from the VM on the server.

Dashrender

Was retail pricing part of that research? If so, could you share it here?

Will your paper be published publicly?

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said:

Will your paper be published publicly?

Yes, not sure when.

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said:

Was retail pricing part of that research? If so, could you share it here?

No, what aspect of retail pricing are you wondering about?

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said:

Assuming you're using the RDP client to connect, you're using the RDS technology to show the GUI on the client from the VM on the server.

No, don't confuse RDP and RDS. No RDS is involved. There is an RDP server and a client. RDS doesn't come into it unless you are adding it externally as an additional non-VDI component.

And RDS licensing is unrelated to RDP, it's about remote access, not the technology.

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said:

@Dashrender said:

Was retail pricing part of that research? If so, could you share it here?

No, what aspect of retail pricing are you wondering about?

Well, now I know that your options are

Enterprise upgrade with SA or
VDA

Apparently there is a third option, SA per user. I don't think this per user version allows the use of Windows Enterprise edition, but it does allow for VDI access according to Chris on SW.
And the SA per user option gives that user the rights to use VDI on up to ANY 5 devices (corporate owned, personal, borrowed, etc) from any location (work, home, moon, etc)

So I'm guessing that the least expensive option will be VDA, followed by Enterprise upgrade with SA and last, most expensive will be per user SA.

I'm wondering what the price breakdowns are?

scottalanmiller

Everything I have seen from everyone, including Chris, is that VDA is the most expensive option. VDA is a special case fallback for large companies that want to use non-Windows thin clients.

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said:

Everything I have seen from everyone, including Chris, is that VDA is the most expensive option. VDA is a special case fallback for large companies that want to use non-Windows thin clients.

I suppose that makes sense, but considering that the Per User option allows for VDI from any 5 Windows or not devices, that license is pretty sweet - I guess the question is, how many VL do you have to buy to qualify to buy them?

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said:

@scottalanmiller said:

Everything I have seen from everyone, including Chris, is that VDA is the most expensive option. VDA is a special case fallback for large companies that want to use non-Windows thin clients.

I suppose that makes sense, but considering that the Per User option allows for VDI from any 5 Windows or not devices, that license is pretty sweet - I guess the question is, how many VL do you have to buy to qualify to buy them?

VL has always been five. Is there reason to suspect that having changed? It was five up until a few weeks ago.

If you don't have VL already, VDI isn't for you at all.

FATeknollogee

@scottalanmiller said:

Everything I have seen from everyone, including Chris, is that VDA is the most expensive option. VDA is a special case fallback for large companies that want to use non-Windows thin clients.

Is that really the case?
Considering that most WES7/8 thin clients are generally more $$ than the Linux equivalent?
Is VDA still needed with a Windows thin client?

If we now consider the Remix Mini at $70, is that enough to offset the VDA price differential?

scottalanmiller

@FATeknollogee said:

Is VDA still needed with a Windows thin client?

VDA is not needed if your primary device is licensed with Windows SA. Then you go to SA licensing.

scottalanmiller

@FATeknollogee said:

Is that really the case?
Considering that most WES7/8 thin clients are generally more $$ than the Linux equivalent?

If we now consider the Remix Mini at $70, is that enough to offset the VDA price differential?

The assumption is that the thin clients are free and not part of the picture. If you include $70 for the Remix Mini, that's $70 more than something that is already more expensive.

The VDA licensing is designed to ensure that you never pay less when doing VDA, just to make sure that the money goes to MS instead of to someone else.

Dashrender

@Chris(GG)

You've got a few options here, depending on if you qualify for the larger MPSA/Select/EA type VL agreements.

Chris said the above to me. I don't qualify for MPSA or Select or EA type VLs, so I don't know if User based SA's are available to me - I read it that they are not.

So this reduces my options to Enterprise UPG + SA or VDA. Which sucks, because the User SA license sounds awesome. I'm trying to understand why MS wouldn't want to sell it to smaller companies other than to just charge us more, assuming that the User +SA is less than the cost of the Enterprise UPG + SA is

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said:

@FATeknollogee said:

Is VDA still needed with a Windows thin client?

VDA is not needed if your primary device is licensed with Windows SA. Then you go to SA licensing.

But plan SA is no longer available - instead you must buy Enterprise Upgrade with SA, that's quite a bit more than just SA used to be.

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said:

@Chris(GG)

You've got a few options here, depending on if you qualify for the larger MPSA/Select/EA type VL agreements.

Chris said the above to me. I don't qualify for MPSA or Select or EA type VLs, so I don't know if User based SA's are available to me - I read it that they are not.

So this reduces my options to Enterprise UPG + SA or VDA. Which sucks, because the User SA license sounds awesome. I'm trying to understand why MS wouldn't want to sell it to smaller companies other than to just charge us more, assuming that the User +SA is less than the cost of the Enterprise UPG + SA is

Smaller companies are really not VDI customers. What do you want to use it for? What's the use case and number of users?

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said:

But plan SA is no longer available - instead you must buy Enterprise Upgrade with SA, that's quite a bit more than just SA used to be.

This pricing change was made before they declared that SA was cheaper than VDA

EU + SA is about how much? What's the cost of VDA?

Remember that before, VDA was the only option and the price was literally insane. That EU + SA is the minimum, it's still a bit cheaper.

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said:

@Dashrender said:

But plan SA is no longer available - instead you must buy Enterprise Upgrade with SA, that's quite a bit more than just SA used to be.

This pricing change was made before they declared that SA was cheaper than VDA

EU + SA is about how much? What's the cost of VDA?

Remember that before, VDA was the only option and the price was literally insane. That EU + SA is the minimum, it's still a bit cheaper.

When was VDA ever the only option? I thought SA always included it? When VDA was created, the features were added to SA at the same time (or so I thought).

The last time I knew, EU was like $125 - $180, and SA was $130, combined that's $255-$310 for the first 2 years, then $130 every 2 years after. Wasn't VDA like $200/yr? maybe less?

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said:

When was VDA ever the only option? I thought SA always included it? When VDA was created, the features were added to SA at the same time (or so I thought).

Pretty sure until 2015, VDA was the only option. Since SA didn't cover your devices. You still needed a VDA license for every device you would use.

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said:

The last time I knew, EU was like $125 - $180, and SA was $130, combined that's $255-$310 for the first 2 years, then $130 every 2 years after. Wasn't VDA like $200/yr? maybe less?

VDA was $100/year/device. If you are doing things short term, VDA is and was cheaper. Chris mentions three years as the crossover point in December. Which is likely true. And who deploys VDI for under three years? Not many people. Someone, but not many.

VDA was really brutal when it meant that VDI was tied to a single end point. Pretty much defeated the point of VDI as there was no mobility.

Dashrender

Leaving eveything else off the table, ridiculous or not, I proposed the following to Chris (GG)

ten Windows 10 Pro OEM PCs with accompanying ten EU + SA licenses
single Hyper-V Server 2012 R2 (not the service upgrade inside normal server) i.e. no Windows server license required at all running ten Windows 10 pro VMs

Considering the above, would I need any additional licensing?

his response was

I think you're missing the method of how you're delivering the VMs from the server to the client. Hyper-V is a free product to virtualize an OS, but it works along with RDS to deliver the VMs from the server to the devices. Given this, you have all the licensing options correct (Win Ent Upgrade w/SA) for the client, but you still need to figure out how your clients will interact with the VMs. As far as I understand it, Hyper-V wont deliver the VMs themselves, that's what you need to figure out and license accordingly.