You Cant Afford RAID 5


  • Service Provider

    Western Digital in Germany, always strangely out to promote RAID 5 because they use it in their entry level NAS products, tried to berate someone (again) for saying that RAID 10 was cheaper than RAID 5. WD conveniently leaves out things like risk and drive costs in these things and acts like parity is just cheaper than mirroring out of hand without actually looking into the issue. They are building quite a reputation for not knowing storage very well. This is the second or third ridiculously reckless posting from this in a week.

    So I ran some numbers, using WD drives, to show why RAID 10 is cheaper. And it isn't a little cheaper. It is way, way cheaper.

    RAID 10 Cheaper than RAID 5:

    Current Amazon 3TB Drive prices:
    3TB Red: £82
    3TB RE: £202

    To be even remotely safe in a tiny RAID 5, you need RE drives which are super safe and have very low UREs. Great drives. So three of those.

    In RAID 10, there is no URE risk of array failure and so we can happily use Red drives at lower cost. But being RAID 10, we need four of them.

    So the costs are:
    RAID 5: £606
    RAID 10: £328

    RAID 10 looks to be significantly cheaper here.


  • Service Provider

    Nearly, but not quite, double the cost. You could get the costs closer in a bigger array, but only by accepting ever increasing RAID 5 risks. Even in this small array, the RAID 10 is dramatically safer than the RAID 5. Each additional drive added makes the RAID 5 much more dangerous both in URE risk from the growing array size and in secondary drive failure risk due to the increase in spindle count. Plus, of course, the bigger the array the longer the recovering time on the RAID 5. RAID 10 has a flat recovery time no matter how many spindles there are.

    By the time the cost arrives around parity, the RAID 5 array is so totally unsafe as to be out of the discussion.

    How is WD not so acutely aware of this?



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    How is WD not so acutely aware of this?

    Because they are sales people who don't care about your data, only selling their stuff.



  • @Dashrender said:

    Because they are sales people who don't care about your data, only selling their stuff.

    ML Useful Tip #43:
    Salespeople are always out to get you!


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    How is WD not so acutely aware of this?

    Because they are sales people who don't care about your data, only selling their stuff.

    There must be some hidden cost factor in their NAS devices that make this make sense. They could sell RAID 10 drives just as easily. There has to be some revenue from one type of drives and not the other that we don't see to explain why they push so hard for fewer, but more expensive drives.


  • Service Provider

    @BRRABill said:

    @Dashrender said:

    Because they are sales people who don't care about your data, only selling their stuff.

    ML Useful Tip #43:
    Salespeople are always out to get you!

    This one is a great example of where they don't just push an agenda, but are willing to blatantly go against best practice, common sense, industry knowledge and put their customers at risk. This is a crossed line where they are not acting like good sales people but are actually lying.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    How is WD not so acutely aware of this?

    Because they are sales people who don't care about your data, only selling their stuff.

    There must be some hidden cost factor in their NAS devices that make this make sense. They could sell RAID 10 drives just as easily. There has to be some revenue from one type of drives and not the other that we don't see to explain why they push so hard for fewer, but more expensive drives.

    That's just it, I bet they aren't even pushing for the more expensive drives, I'm willing to bet they would be happy and never even recommend the more expensive drives.


  • Service Provider

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.

    Other than pushing toward RAID 5, what makes the device crappy?


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.

    Other than pushing toward RAID 5, what makes the device crappy?

    It's fine, just a very entry level device. Not bad like QNAP, for example. It's much more limited than it's competition, though. Everything it is up against has configurable drives and RAID. It does not.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.

    Other than pushing toward RAID 5, what makes the device crappy?

    It's fine, just a very entry level device. Not bad like QNAP, for example. It's much more limited than it's competition, though. Everything it is up against has configurable drives and RAID. It does not.

    you can't configure the RAID level? if that's the case, yep, that's a NEVER buy device.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.

    Other than pushing toward RAID 5, what makes the device crappy?

    It's fine, just a very entry level device. Not bad like QNAP, for example. It's much more limited than it's competition, though. Everything it is up against has configurable drives and RAID. It does not.

    you can't configure the RAID level? if that's the case, yep, that's a NEVER buy device.

    That's the whole point, it's a RAID 5 device only.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.

    Other than pushing toward RAID 5, what makes the device crappy?

    It's fine, just a very entry level device. Not bad like QNAP, for example. It's much more limited than it's competition, though. Everything it is up against has configurable drives and RAID. It does not.

    you can't configure the RAID level? if that's the case, yep, that's a NEVER buy device.

    That's the whole point, it's a RAID 5 device only.

    Aww.. well - yep, crazy stupid device.

    Wait - if you only put SSDs in there, then it's probably usable, but still - crazy stupid device.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.

    Other than pushing toward RAID 5, what makes the device crappy?

    It's fine, just a very entry level device. Not bad like QNAP, for example. It's much more limited than it's competition, though. Everything it is up against has configurable drives and RAID. It does not.

    you can't configure the RAID level? if that's the case, yep, that's a NEVER buy device.

    That's the whole point, it's a RAID 5 device only.>
    Aww.. well - yep, crazy stupid device.

    Wait - if you only put SSDs in there, then it's probably usable, but still - crazy stupid device.

    You can try that. It's not a device that officially allows you to change the drives, though.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.

    Other than pushing toward RAID 5, what makes the device crappy?

    It's fine, just a very entry level device. Not bad like QNAP, for example. It's much more limited than it's competition, though. Everything it is up against has configurable drives and RAID. It does not.

    you can't configure the RAID level? if that's the case, yep, that's a NEVER buy device.

    That's the whole point, it's a RAID 5 device only.>
    Aww.. well - yep, crazy stupid device.

    Wait - if you only put SSDs in there, then it's probably usable, but still - crazy stupid device.

    You can try that. It's not a device that officially allows you to change the drives, though.

    aww.. it also comes pre populated.... yeah.. scratch that from the face of the earth.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    Oh, no I've checked. Their RAID 5 in their NAS is always on RE drives. Almost triple the cost of Red drives.

    ohhh.. huh, interesting... well in that case then.. is the device a 3 drive device they are pushing people toward? or a 4 drive?

    They sell a four drive, RAID 5 device. The problem is, that to defend that product they go out and try to tell the world that RAID 5 is just fine and that all of the concern is made up. They put people at risk trying to cover for selling a crappy NAS device.

    Other than pushing toward RAID 5, what makes the device crappy?

    It's fine, just a very entry level device. Not bad like QNAP, for example. It's much more limited than it's competition, though. Everything it is up against has configurable drives and RAID. It does not.

    you can't configure the RAID level? if that's the case, yep, that's a NEVER buy device.

    That's the whole point, it's a RAID 5 device only.>
    Aww.. well - yep, crazy stupid device.

    Wait - if you only put SSDs in there, then it's probably usable, but still - crazy stupid device.

    You can try that. It's not a device that officially allows you to change the drives, though.

    aww.. it also comes pre populated.... yeah.. scratch that from the face of the earth.

    Oh yes, pre-pop only.



  • Why are we even talking about this POS?



  • @Dashrender said:

    Why are we even talking about this POS?

    Because you can?



  • @dafyre said:

    @Dashrender said:

    Why are we even talking about this POS?

    Because you can?

    because we can waste our time? I guess.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @dafyre said:

    @Dashrender said:

    Why are we even talking about this POS?

    Because you can?

    because we can waste our time? I guess.

    We're not wasting time. We're waiting for replies to other important topics. :-)


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