Non-IT News Thread



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening,

    No it is not.



  • @Pete-S said in Non-IT News Thread:

    So you test those that have serious symptoms and need to go to the ER.

    Why? Those seem like the least useful to test. They are known sick, known to be in need, and already being treated.

    It's the mild symptoms we need to know most. We need to know how to change behaviour to keep as many people functional as possible, while stopping the spread as much as possible.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening,

    No it is not.

    Um, try all news outlets, every government speach.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening,

    No it is not.

    Um, try all news outlets, every government speach.

    Excuse me yes, one certain elected official, and his favorite news station.

    But thinking people already know that is false bullshit.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening,

    No it is not.

    Um, try all news outlets, every government speach.

    Excuse me yes, one certain elected official, and his favorite news station.

    But thinking people already know that is false bullshit.

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.

    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.
    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.

    Stop conflating my statements.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.

    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.

    No one, anywhere, reports official numbers that are not "tested positive"



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.
    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.

    Stop conflating my statements.

    Here is an example. And boy have the numbers grown since I went to sleep. Now the NYT is pretty liberal. And they don't state that this is the real number, they state that this is tested. But when presented in this way, there's nothing but the tested number. Nothing mentions "testing withheld or unavailable, so not connected to real cases", it requires people to see this data and then research and put together that it doesn't mean what they think that it means. This is how television ads work... state something like what people want to hear, don't point out that they misunderstand, and they believe that they've been told something different than they have.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

    Even the URL says "cases" not "tests".



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    and only give out as many tests as they feel that they can admit to at the time.

    Prove it. Because all reports of the supply chain are that test are being made as fast as possible. Including testing for new version that provide faster results.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.

    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.

    No one, anywhere, reports official numbers that are not "tested positive"

    Exactly. That's my whole point. We aren't reporting what we believe the tests have told us, but only underlying data that, without knowing how the tests are being withheld, means literally nothing.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    and only give out as many tests as they feel that they can admit to at the time.

    Prove it. Because all reports of the supply chain are that test are being made as fast as possible. Including testing for new version that provide faster results.

    It was announced here. Hard limits to testing, not based on available tests. They have a government issues limit to daily reports for the DFW.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    In Mexico their testing facilities were told that they couldn't administer the tests. And that's first had info from a testing facility because someone tried to go there and they had an announcement that they were forbidden to test for COVID.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.

    No, there's not a single piece of conjecture. Those are all the reported facts. Absolutely zero conjecture.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.

    No, there's not a single piece of conjecture. Those are all the reported facts. Absolutely zero conjecture.

    Conjecture is saying it is conjecture. You are assuming I've changed what was reported without any reason to believe so.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.

    No, there's not a single piece of conjecture. Those are all the reported facts. Absolutely zero conjecture.

    Conjecture is saying it is conjecture. You are assuming I've changed what was reported without any reason to believe so.

    • You are a well known opponent to anything in the US medical industry.
    • You are well known to use broad strokes claims of everyone or everything that are not actual provable by documented reports.

    I have plenty of reason to assume so.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.

    No, there's not a single piece of conjecture. Those are all the reported facts. Absolutely zero conjecture.

    Conjecture is saying it is conjecture. You are assuming I've changed what was reported without any reason to believe so.

    • You are a well known opponent to anything in the US medical industry.
    • You are well known to use broad strokes claims of everyone or everything that are not actual provable by documented reports.

    I have plenty of reason to assume so.

    Except neither of those things are relevant here. The first isn't related, at all. I'm not just talking about the US, and I'm certainly not talking about the medical industry. And the second is unrelated as there is no broad stroke, just a simple proved fact.

    The conjecture is entirely on your side. You are using broad strokes about me and trying to say that because I dislike X that facts not from me about Y and Z must be false. That's both ad hominem, and completely wrong on top.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I'm not just talking about the US

    ahem...

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Dallas is an example,



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I'm certainly not talking about the medical industry

    How is medical tests any but the medical industry?



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    just a simple proved fact.

    You have proven nothing.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I'm certainly not talking about the medical industry

    How is medical tests any but the medical industry?

    Because who they can give them to is determined by the government right now. It is the government, not doctors, providing the full stop in Mexico, or the 500 city limit in Dallas. Doctors aren't involved in any way, other than administering the tests. Which we've already discussed. So why you are bringing up the doctors as if you think there is some big conspiracy I have no idea.

    I'm just talking the simple facts that we all know. You are running with that and trying to make something simple and factual into a big conspiracy.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    just a simple proved fact.

    You have proven nothing.

    In fact, quite the opposite.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I'm not just talking about the US

    ahem...

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Dallas is an example,

    I've given Mexico as an example multiple times. When someone says "not JUST talking about X" that means that they are talking about X plus other things.

    That you point out that I am talking about X, as if that's different than what I just said, makes absolutely no sense.



  • So here are the facts that we absolutely know and you can't say are conjecture....

    1. Not everyone can get tests.
    2. Tests are in limited supply.
    3. Testing availability isn't universal.
    4. Testing is not first come, first served.
    5. Tests are sometimes available, but refused.
    6. There are testing limits not set by availability.
    7. There are multiple nations with this situation that we know firsthand.
    8. The numbers reported in outlets are the testing numbers.
    9. Testing numbers are reported without also the required information about testing availability for those numbers to make them meaningful.

    Zero conjecture. That's the whole thing. Point out where in that list of simple facts, ANYTHING is based on someone not liking doctors or making something up?

    I think it's clear where the tinfoil hat is.



  • We can argue and provide conjecture about why governments limit in the way that they do, or we can have conjecture about why the news doesn't make it clear that they are posting meaningless numbers. That would be conjecture. But that's not what we are discussing. We are discussing that they do those things, that's not conjecture, that's fact that you know.

    You assume that by stating a fact that I must be implying something (but heaven only knows what) based on those facts. But I'm not. I'm stating the facts. The rest, you imagined.



  • @scottalanmiller or, you can provide some kind of documented proof to any or all of your claims.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller or, you can provide some kind of documented proof to any or all of your claims.

    Right, so we moved past that conjecture. Now you are asking me to prove the obvious because you are determined to believe in a conspiracy. So now it's clear it's obvious facts, so now you have to imply that I'm making them up because you don't like that they are true.

    And of course, I can prove them. But they are common knowledge at this point. There is no proof that you won't just claim is a lie, or that it could be a lie.

    The bottom line is, we have this argument all the time. You don't accept first hand evidence, because at the end of the day you always have to trust someone. If the ABC News' stating something isn't fact for you, and I understand that they can lie, then nothing is fact. Because that's all we'll ever get.

    I've had clinics post on their websites, so this is straight from the doctors, that the government has forbidden testing. But if you don't believe the doctors, and I understand that with you wear the tinfoil hat you distrust everything, the problem becomes that there is no such thing as a fact.

    So no, to you, I cannot prove it. To everyone else, there is nothing to prove. Because it's corroborated evidence from source after source that are known to be generally reliable news outlets that, especially when in concert, are expected to be very true. There is no evidence or logic to the contrary.

    The problem is, you are using trickery to try to say that we can never know anything, so everything is always conjecture. That is exactly the definition of the tinfoil hate. You don't trust the doctors, the government, me, anyone.

    I used this list of facts specifically, because there's nothing on it you can call into question without looking like a lunatic. It's all the unquestioned stuff from both sides. There's no partisanship, no conspiracy, no nothing. Just the basic facts that everyone accepts.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    You don't accept first hand evidence, because at the end of the day you always have to trust someone.

    I believe any number of things you say as true. I believe that your cousin or whoever is having issues getting tested.

    I do not believe, without any third party evidence,

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    the 500 city limit in Dallas.

    Because prior to asking you to prove this statement, I searched for it myself.


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