Non-IT News Thread
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 I dont lie.
Google doesn't do anything wrong. Did that just solve the problem?
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
No, the fine should be significant enough that the shareholders would feel the pain, and get new directors in the company. 12% isnt doing that.
No google wouldnt shut down. They wouldnt lose money. They just wouldnt make as much,.Why should the stock holders feel the pain of what a corporate identity did? It wasn't the stock holders who were in the meeting specifically demanding the business do this.
Well, the stock holders ARE the ones to blame. If you don't punish them, there is no punishment.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
No, the fine should be significant enough that the shareholders would feel the pain, and get new directors in the company. 12% isnt doing that.
No google wouldnt shut down. They wouldnt lose money. They just wouldnt make as much,.Why should the stock holders feel the pain of what a corporate identity did? It wasn't the stock holders who were in the meeting specifically demanding the business do this.
Well, the stock holders ARE the ones to blame. If you don't punish them, there is no punishment.
But the stock holders (generally) are investment providers, not decision makers. It's why boards exist. To tell the corporation what to do.
Significant investors could be on the board, and thus should feel the pain of doing something scrupulous I agree. But the peon investors have almost no say.
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The peon investors are the people who are hoping to have bought low and to be able to sell high.
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
It wasn't the stock holders who were in the meeting specifically demanding the business do this.
That's the hiring the hitman argument. Should it be legal to hire a hitman, and then the hitman only can be charged with manslaughter, not murder, because it was just a job. And the hirer gets away because they didn't pull the trigger?
The hitman system can't be a loophole, it makes crime.. not a crime.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
It wasn't the stock holders who were in the meeting specifically demanding the business do this.
That's the hiring the hitman argument. Should it be legal to hire a hitman, and then the hitman only can be charged with manslaughter, not murder, because it was just a job. And the hirer gets away because they didn't pull the trigger?
The hitman system can't be a loophole, it makes crime.. not a crime.
To clarify as you're nitpicking my words apart.
Most investors have little to no actual say in the business operations. It's the large investors who control 51% and up of the business who decide these things.
I agree, every investor has a say, but that say often is completely ignored.
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@DustinB3403 Google DID do something wrong. That is why they were fined. A pittance that means nothing, but they were fined. I dont lie, and havent done anything wrong.
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@DustinB3403 Shareholders are owners of the company. By investing they are agreeing with decisions of the board. Why shouldnt individual retail investors feel the pain of this fine? They agreed to the bad activity by investing.
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 Google DID do something wrong. That is why they were fined. A pittance that means nothing, but they were fined. I dont lie, and havent done anything wrong.
It was a hypothetical about you lying and being caught. I get that google did something illegal, and they are being fined for it.
I disagree with you that they should be fined 90% of annual income because of this act. How much of their profit was from legitimate customers. Rather than people being fooled to shop on google?
Certainly not 90% of customers.
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@DustinB3403 As Scott said it is only their profit being fined. I ask again why it shouldnt be all or a significant part of it? Neither of you has answered that.
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 Shareholders are owners of the company. By investing they are agreeing with decisions of the board. Why shouldnt individual retail investors feel the pain of this fine? They agreed to the bad activity by investing.
If you think that way you are sorely mistaken. Just because all decisions are made public (to investors) doesn't mean that each and every investor would be able to come together and tell the business to knock it off.
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 As Scott said it is only their profit being fined. I ask again why it shouldnt be all or a significant part of it? Neither of you has answered that.
And I posed a question to you, which you got defensive about. If you got caught lying about something with made you more money, should you be fined all of your profit for the year? Or even 90%?
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@DustinB3403 You are missing what i am saying. By default when you invest in a company you are agreeing with their management. If you didnt, you can choose to invest in a different company.
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 You are missing what i am saying. By default when you invest in a company you are agreeing with their management. If you didnt, you can choose to invest in a different company.
But management changes, decisions change as business goes on. Just because you agreed at one time, doesn't mean you know all of the inter workings of the business.
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@DustinB3403 No becasue lying isnt illegal. If i did something whose punishment deserved a fine, then yes i should be fined. I have been fined 90% of my profits before(posession).
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 No becasue lying isnt illegal. If i did something whose punishment deserved a fine, then yes i should be fined. I have been fined 90% of my profits before(posession).
Sure it is, it's illegal to lie on a contractual obligation. It's illegal to lie in court.
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@DustinB3403 Thats why you sell your shares when management changes their behavior to something you dont like. Have you ever invested money before? Do you keep a position forever?
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 Thats why you sell your shares when management changes their behavior to something you dont like. Have you ever invested money before? Do you keep a position forever?
Or a different investment strategy is to hold on to your shares, threw thick and thin of the company.
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@DustinB3403 That is a terrible idea and how people go bankrupt. Ill just hold on to my Eastman Kodak shares...
WHY SHOULDNT THE FINE BE 100% OF GOOGLE'S PROFIT FOR A YEAR?
Another example earlier this year, Wells Fargo committed fraud for 10 years on millions of their own customers. The fine, 100 million dollars after they stole billions. Not a single member of the management was arrested. What is the incentive for them to stop doing this? -
@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 That is a terrible idea and how people go bankrupt. Ill just hold on to my Eastman Kodak shares...
WHY SHOULDNT THE FINE BE 100% OF GOOGLE'S PROFIT FOR A YEAR?
Another example earlier this year, Wells Fargo committed fraud for 10 years on millions of their own customers. The fine, 100 million dollars after they stole billions. Not a single member of the management was arrested. What is the incentive for them to stop doing this?The incentive isn't to stop, its the governments job to determine what is legal and illegal. If a business finds a creative way to do so without breaking laws, why should someone go to jail over it?
It's also the governments job to investigate these businesses and report / charge the business.
Also LLC, its so people don't go to jail!
