What does your desk look like?

scottalanmiller

@tonyshowoff said:

Edit: WebStorm does node.js well, that's what we use it for.

Ah, of course it does. Forgot it was JS-centric. I'll have to check it out soon. What are some of the advantages it has over Sublime?

Context. It's an IDE rather than an advanced text editor. Auto-integrates with a lot of packages, code completion, remote execution, that kind of stuff.

creayt

@tonyshowoff said:

@creayt Sorry, I was watching GoodFellas and not paying attention to what I was typing. I edited my post, I meant to say it was hard to read, it's definitely not hard to do.

I definitely don't consider it cutting edge at all, and the syntax to be just god awful. I'd say that node.js is cutting edge and it also does support WebSocket too (naturally). Plus WebSocket libraries are available with most major languages too, just because they're automatically included with CF (assuming) doesn't make it superior.

The syntax is its major competitive advantage hahaha, and what lets one CF developer do the work of 2-3 PHP devs in the same amount of time.. Ok, you definitely don't know what you're talking about. I was worried you did for a sec, that's a relief.

creayt

@scottalanmiller said:

@creayt said:

@tonyshowoff said:

Edit: WebStorm does node.js well, that's what we use it for.

Ah, of course it does. Forgot it was JS-centric. I'll have to check it out soon. What are some of the advantages it has over Sublime?

Context. It's an IDE rather than an advanced text editor. Auto-integrates with a lot of packages, code completion, remote execution, that kind of stuff.

The code completion in Sublime is impeccable, it also does code introspection and prompts you with your variable and method names, etc. Sublime is highly extensible and there are billions of packages that let you build your own IDE feature set in a few quick commands. Have you guys actually even used it?

creayt

@tonyshowoff said:

@creayt Sorry, I was watching GoodFellas and not paying attention to what I was typing. I edited my post, I meant to say it was hard to read, it's definitely not hard to do.

I definitely don't consider it cutting edge at all, and the syntax to be just god awful. I'd say that node.js is cutting edge and it also does support WebSocket too (naturally). Plus WebSocket libraries are available with most major languages too, just because they're automatically included with CF (assuming) doesn't make it superior.

No, but it does instantly dismiss your labeling of it as non-modern, which was the point.

tonyshowoff

@creayt I don't disagree that it's faster to write, but from a syntax perspective the fact it doesn't stand out from HTML I don't consider an advantage. I also don't consider it an advantage that basically almost forces one into a position of not separating concerns. You can write more CF, but will it be better, faster, and more platform independent than my PHP? (Possibly faster than Ruby, depending on various things) Certainly not, and I'm also locked into Adobe's licensing schema as well, and I don't like that. In all though the syntax issue is a matter of preference, obviously, but I think my other concerns are founded.

creayt

@tonyshowoff said:

Profiling, testing, better organisation of code, great version control, I can click and follow things, great refactoring support, way better suggestions based on the language and code you've written. It's endless, really, Sublime is basically a fancy highlighter, but better than Notepad++.

Ummmm, what? Better organization of code? What does that sentence mean to you?

tonyshowoff

@creayt said:

Ummmm, what? Better organization of code? What does that sentence mean to you?

Easier, rather, it puts you in a position to more easily organise things, because things are easier to follow and find. Proper organisation of larger projects is highly important, especially when you consider things like separation of concerns and so forth. Text editors like Sublime or Notepad++ don't really help with that at all.

@tonyshowoff said:

I definitely don't consider it cutting edge at all, and the syntax to be just god awful. I'd say that node.js is cutting edge and it also does support WebSocket too (naturally). Plus WebSocket libraries are available with most major languages too, just because they're automatically included with CF (assuming) doesn't make it superior.

The fact that Adobe is involved with ColdFusion has been a negative strike against it.

creayt

@tonyshowoff said:

@creayt I don't disagree that it's faster to write, but from a syntax perspective the fact it doesn't stand out from HTML I don't consider an advantage. I also don't consider it an advantage that basically almost forces one into a position of not separating concerns. You can write more CF, but will it be better, faster, and more platform independent than my PHP? (Possibly faster than Ruby, depending on various things) Certainly not, and I'm also locked into Adobe's licensing schema as well, and I don't like that. In all though the syntax issue is a matter of preference, obviously, but I think my other concerns are founded.

Guessing you aren't familiar w/ cfScript, which is at the heart of ColdFusion. Though the tag language is appropriate and unparalleledly powerful for dynamic HTML generation and integration, the script equivalent is equally powerful and feature compatible.

So you can do

<loop query="q">
<!--- Dynamic html here --->
</loop>

to exploit the fluid, powerful integration with HTML.

But you can also do

function myUtil( arg1, arg2 ){
   return z;
}

It's not that dissimilar to Javascript, and can do everything PHP or Ruby does, with a syntax that lets people familiar w/ JS do powerful back end stuff with extraordinarily good performance out of the box. Not gonna lie, I love ColdFusion.

creayt

@tonyshowoff Also, as far as licensing, I'm guessing you haven't heard of Railo. It's the free, open-source ColdFusion.

http://www.getrailo.org/

tonyshowoff

@creayt Oh, no I wasn't, cfScript is vastly better. Admittedly my experience with CF is about 8 or so years out of date, but due to licensing, availability, and other issues I never consider it really. Full disclosure, I've always hated XML as well, and we use JSON or BSON for all of our transport/storage stuff in house where possible over XML. You may love ColdFusion, but I certainly do not, and I think that's fine.

scottalanmiller

And CF runs on top of Java now too

tonyshowoff

@scottalanmiller said:

And CF runs on top of Java now too

So does Ruby

scottalanmiller

@tonyshowoff said:

@scottalanmiller said:

And CF runs on top of Java now too

So does Ruby

Ruby does so optionally, CF is implemented solely that way it would appear.

scottalanmiller

I actually like Java on the server side. It's just Adobe on Java, it sounds bad.

scottalanmiller

I've not dealt with CF since 2001 when IBM though that ColdFusion was a good idea alongside OS/2 and Token Ring networking.

tonyshowoff

@scottalanmiller Me too, client side Java sucks. The first version of AOL AIM was coded in Java... Swing is so terrible.

scottalanmiller

Yeah, client side Java was a horrible idea from the beginning. But server side is actually excellent. Especially when you add Scala, Clojure or the like.

@scottalanmiller said:

It's just Adobe sounds bad.

FTFY. Sadly. And I even own a lot of Adobe software, It's a necessary evil.

@scottalanmiller said:

Yeah, client side Java was a horrible idea from the beginning. But server side is actually excellent. Especially when you add Scala, Clojure or the like.

Lazy programers like it since it's not native. No porting needed. I hate it. It's talk in colleges as one of the best languages a lot. That it's better than VB or C++