Money or Happiness?
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@scottalanmiller said:
I think you know the answer from how you write. Staples makes you happy. And long term, what makes you happy will pretty much be what makes you more money too. Job hopping is okay a little, but that's a factor too, you have a lot of it. Halting that would be beneficial.
Moving to an MSP, again, means leaving what you enjoy and your comfort zone into a path that's not been ideal for you, again. That makes it a big gamble. And unlike other MSP ventures that you have taken in the past, this one is into a technology arena in which you are not currently experienced which adds even more risk - both in that you will not enjoy it and in that you have to ramp up in a whole new area.
Staples is stability and known territory, territory that you enjoy. Honestly the ET Exp job seems like the smart move. More money than you make now and more money that you will make for the next six months. It's stable, reliable and safe - and it is what you enjoy.
Taking a pay cut to take on a huge risk is.... risky. A 50% pay raise in six months means that they lack confidence that you will stay that long, one way or another. That's a crazy raise to be "promised" off in the future. That's a red flag. Either than they lack faith in you but are willing to gamble at $10 or that they don't intend to give it or they are on the verge of collapse and if they make it that long, they think that they can probably cover the extra cost. None of those are good.
I don't think looking outside Staples makes sense for you, not for a few years. You need to build a resume, build stability and build a track record.
Yeah, but right now, in my life, I need the money. Also, I would only get $11 and change as Expert. Last I knew, the cap for a non-management associate was $12/hour at Staples with very few exceptions. That is regardless of tenure.
The $10/hour is only when you are a temporary employee. The company is reputable and good to its employees, which is evidence by many first hand accounts. It's just their policy. The promised raise they are good for. That's also SOP.
The reason I said $17 is because I figured it'd be doable for that type of position and because that's what I'd really need.
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I'd be worried about switching to management, it's a different game. You like what you do now, do you know that you'd like that? You are always looking for a change, maybe look to stay stable. I know that the current money sucks, but take the raise and the long term path. Take the ET position, it's more money right now either way. Not a lot, but some. Once you take that and excel at that, ask for more. Put in six months, just like you would have at the other position, prove that you are worth it and ask for another dollar or two.
Sometimes evolutionary growth is more important than revolutionary growth. Sometimes just growing where you are is the right thing.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Sometimes evolutionary growth is more important than revolutionary growth. Sometimes just growing where you are is the right thing.
This. Many of my friends work in HR and they always say constant switching of career paths is always a red flag to them.
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Here is the thing, you have three choices ahead of you. Let's break them down:
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Drop in pay, ephemeral promises of halfway decent money in six months "if things work out." In the meantime you are not an FTE. Warning bells should be going off all over. The only guarantee here is that the next six months are less money. That is the promise. Don't keep saying what will happen in six months, that's not a guarantee, it's not part of the deal. It's marketing, ignore it. High risk from your side (can you excel?), high risk from their side (are they stable?) And don't repeat that they are the fastest growing anything, no one has heard of them, they are paying like a failing business - use logic, you have no proof this is a healthy business.
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Small raise, solid future. This is the guaranteed raise with a job that you know and they know you. No one is taking a chance here, this is success within your grasp. It's the conservative choice. Everything is a 'known', there is essentially no comparative risk.
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Big raise, nothing has been offered, unknown capability. You are untried in the position and don't even know if they will offer it. Less risk than #1 but huge risk compared to #2. More money but big chance of failure.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
Now I told my GM that he can't afford me as the Expert.
This was probably a mistake. Not only can he afford you in that role, but he's offering you 10% more than you have as an offer from anywhere else. And with a stable future, not a paycut for just six months and no offer after that.
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Don't be afraid to negotiate, but do so reasonably. EZTech Expert is $11. You jumped to $17, that's an unreasonable leap. But tell him you need $11.25.... no one is going to lose you, the bird in the hand, the known quantity, over $.25.
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Now I'm not saying to give up on the management track, that might make sense for you. But don't hard negotiate for it, you have no leverage. Build your Staples resume first. You have EZTech Expert experience in your grasp. Don't waste the opportunity. Become the Expert, gain experience, gain leverage. Start getting training or whatever so that becoming the manager is the next obvious step. Talk to the big manager, tell him you want the Expert Job, with $11.25, not $11 flat, and you want to start grooming for the entry level management position and want to be ready to be seriously considered when the time is right.
Don't give ultimatums, no one has more to lose here than you do.
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What makes you happy is pretty much always the answer. You need to get up every morning and be excited about what you do.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Now I'm not saying to give up on the management track, that might make sense for you. But don't hard negotiate for it, you have no leverage. Build your Staples resume first. You have EZTech Expert experience in your grasp. Don't waste the opportunity. Become the Expert, gain experience, gain leverage. Start getting training or whatever so that becoming the manager is the next obvious step. Talk to the big manager, tell him you want the Expert Job, with $11.25, not $11 flat, and you want to start grooming for the entry level management
Management is baby steps. I had worked a temporary job for almost 3 years, and worked around 60hrs a week at the company (Follett Corperation). I was offered a regional management job and they told me to take some time to think about it, I ended up turning it down while it was very nice money, working in management in that way didn't make any sense for my career path. A week later I took a job in IT again. My Boss their as well as most upper management in the company has always been great references as well for me especially because of how long I stayed with them while being a temporary employee.
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@QDesk said:
What makes you happy is pretty much always the answer. You need to get up every morning and be excited about what you do.
So True! Money as long as it pay the bills isn't as important as people make it out to be.
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Stay put. Take the EZ Expert position. It fits you. Management is a headache and you will be responsible for things you have not even thought of yet. The Expert position is something you know and can do well. You are only responsible for results. You have a lot of friends who like you and wish you the best, but when you take on a role you are not ready for, you tend to become over-bearing and rub people the wrong way. Take some time, and learn from others. If you jump before you are ready, you set yourself up for failure. The job offer may look sweet "in six months" but most businesses now also have a 90 day probationary period where you can be let go without a reason. Being late once is all they need to say goodbye. That is extremely risky. Telling Staples goodbye when they have offered you an advancement will mean you can't go back without taking a cut in pay and respect. You need a sure thing for a while. If you want a CCNA, get it on your own. It will be worth more to you then. In all our conversations I have not heard you talk networks, so I am not sure why you are looking at that now.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Now I'm not saying to give up on the management track, that might make sense for you. But don't hard negotiate for it, you have no leverage. Build your Staples resume first. You have EZTech Expert experience in your grasp. Don't waste the opportunity. Become the Expert, gain experience, gain leverage. Start getting training or whatever so that becoming the manager is the next obvious step. Talk to the big manager, tell him you want the Expert Job, with $11.25, not $11 flat, and you want to start grooming for the entry level management position and want to be ready to be seriously considered when the time is right.
Don't give ultimatums, no one has more to lose here than you do.
You bring up some good points Scott. The ET Expert role IS a keyholder position, which would be perfect grooming for sales manager. I'd have pretty much all the same training. Also, after 4 days this week of working one job, another, or both, I have realized I can't do two or more jobs again. Last time I did it for 3-4 months and it burned me out. I have enough going on in my life that I need to focus on one job and just kick ass at it.
I can do the two jobs for about 5 weeks. April 11th, the current Expert's last day, is a Saturday, and the last day of a shift of mine, as my current shifts are Tues-Sat. So that works out. I think that's what I'll do.
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@dengelhardt said:
Stay put. Take the EZ Expert position. It fits you. Management is a headache and you will be responsible for things you have not even thought of yet. The Expert position is something you know and can do well. You are only responsible for results. You have a lot of friends who like you and wish you the best, but when you take on a role you are not ready for, you tend to become over-bearing and rub people the wrong way. Take some time, and learn from others. If you jump before you are ready, you set yourself up for failure. The job offer may look sweet "in six months" but most businesses now also have a 90 day probationary period where you can be let go without a reason. Being late once is all they need to say goodbye. That is extremely risky. Telling Staples goodbye when they have offered you an advancement will mean you can't go back without taking a cut in pay and respect. You need a sure thing for a while. If you want a CCNA, get it on your own. It will be worth more to you then. In all our conversations I have not heard you talk networks, so I am not sure why you are looking at that now.
And, of course, if you get your CCNA that other job is not only still there, but you can go in with that much more negotiating power.... a track record at more money, less on the line and more to bargain with. Go back in a year with EZ Expert under your belt AND a CCNA and demand $18/hr if you want. But do things in the right order.
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@dengelhardt said:
If you want a CCNA, get it on your own. It will be worth more to you then. In all our conversations I have not heard you talk networks, so I am not sure why you are looking at that now.
I didn't get that part as well. If they are looking for a CCNA I'd think they'd want more network support experience as well
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Now I'm not saying to give up on the management track, that might make sense for you. But don't hard negotiate for it, you have no leverage. Build your Staples resume first. You have EZTech Expert experience in your grasp. Don't waste the opportunity. Become the Expert, gain experience, gain leverage. Start getting training or whatever so that becoming the manager is the next obvious step. Talk to the big manager, tell him you want the Expert Job, with $11.25, not $11 flat, and you want to start grooming for the entry level management position and want to be ready to be seriously considered when the time is right.
Don't give ultimatums, no one has more to lose here than you do.
You bring up some good points Scott. The ET Expert role IS a keyholder position, which would be perfect grooming for sales manager. I'd have pretty much all the same training. Also, after 4 days this week of working one job, another, or both, I have realized I can't do two or more jobs again. Last time I did it for 3-4 months and it burned me out. I have enough going on in my life that I need to focus on one job and just kick ass at it.
I can do the two jobs for about 5 weeks. April 11th, the current Expert's last day, is a Saturday, and the last day of a shift of mine, as my current shifts are Tues-Sat. So that works out. I think that's what I'll do.
I think that that is a good, safe, conservative choice that Staples will be happy with. Leverage this to make the management position a natural growth step if you want, that might be a perfect way to go. But now that they know it is something that you are interested in, let them bring the idea to you when the time comes. Now you can groom yourself as the stable, reasonable, responsible "almost" manager while the other guy digs his own hole over time.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@dengelhardt said:
If you want a CCNA, get it on your own. It will be worth more to you then. In all our conversations I have not heard you talk networks, so I am not sure why you are looking at that now.
I didn't get that part as well. If they are looking for a CCNA I'd think they'd want more network support experience as well
That's where I fear that the six months at super low pay is a kind of probation where he is not an FTE (not sure what he would be) and they just want to see if he is CCNA material. That makes it that much riskier and scary.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@dengelhardt said:
If you want a CCNA, get it on your own. It will be worth more to you then. In all our conversations I have not heard you talk networks, so I am not sure why you are looking at that now.
I didn't get that part as well. If they are looking for a CCNA I'd think they'd want more network support experience as well
That's where I fear that the six months at super low pay is a kind of probation where he is not an FTE (not sure what he would be) and they just want to see if he is CCNA material. That makes it that much riskier and scary.
IMO the best way to get experience, not in just IT but in management or whatever is to keep the current role and ask if they can show you (or let you learn) how to do other tasks for the roles you are interested in, this allows you to learn more while the company won't see small mistakes as big problems as much as you will be going above and beyond to to extra and learn more. Where as if it were your primary role it would be expected that you know how to do it and may be terminated during probation for it.
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I should also add, for those who don't know, I was ET Expert my from beginning of Feb 2013-Jun 1, 2013. On my watch, that store saw it's record-setting week and best consecutive 7+ weeks. If we do 3500 in tech and warranties in a week, it's a good week. For at least 7 weeks at the beginning of Q1 2013, I did at least 4K/week in that combo, aka "blend".
I came back into the store and have immediately doubled and tripled business. I know I can do the job. I've done it before and I can do it again.
I'm going to take the Expert job. We'll see what happens from there.
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I grew up extremely poor, and started making lots of money in my late 20s and I have to say: money is happiness. If you don't agree with that, surely you can agree that it at least prevents misery. I'll take more money to do worse work every time, because it pushes you closer to being done, if you're planning things right. I've been unofficially "retired" since 2010, and now making money and running businesses (I hesitate to use the over-used word "entrepreneur") is now both something that I enjoy and a way to get away from my wife complaining I spend too much time doing nothing.
I'd set a goal and work toward it, even if it's no fun. I don't agree with the idea of working for pennies doing what you love, because if you do what you hate well enough, for enough money, you can retire earlier and enjoy your freedom and what you love. I think a lot of time people just lie to themselves about this issue, just look at all the people on Spiceworks talking about how IT is their calling and they'd do it for free -- while it's certainly possible they would, I have a feeling they mean they'd use their free time to mess with computers, not wipe the noses of users.
My point is, do what it takes to make more money now, so you can enjoy your life later. I honestly think from time to time I wish I had worked harder much earlier so I could've gotten more of my late 20s back, but even if it meant in an alternative universe retiring at 50 instead of 70, I'd still work 30 years doing something I hate than working until I'm dead just trying to get by whilst telling myself "yeah, I sure love this". I'd rather be at home, but that's just me.
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@tonyshowoff said:
My point is, do what it takes to make more money now, so you can enjoy your life later.
I don't want to live in the future. I want to enjoy my life all the way through. I didn't pursue very good career options in my 20s but I had the time of my life and wouldn't swap it now. I have a few friends who earn a lot of money, but they have had health problems and rarely see their kids - that's not the life for me. I wouldn't want to be poor, but I've no desire to be rich either.
Having said that, I could do with some more cash at the moment.....
