Windows 11 versus 10
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@Pete-S said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I haven't had time to run Windows 11 yet.
From a sysadmin's perspective, what is the difference between these OSes?
Or is it just the usual make-a-new-version-so-we-can-market-and-sell-upgrades?
It's definitely not about upgrades - at least not on the OS side. MS is giving the upgrade away for free, just like Windows 10.
And normal people will simply get Windows 11 when they buy a new computer.
As for what's different - they have dumbed it down. They have removed several of the ways that you used to be able to do things. For example, you used to be able to right click on the Start Bar and launch task manager - it's been gone (though, after more than a year, it's coming back).
The Start Bar has been completely rewritten. (FYI it can't be moved to the sides or top anymore)
They have cleaned up a lot more of the control panel options, moving them into the newer Windows Settings.
Setting your own choice of default browser is harder, and not as fully integrated as it was in Windows 10 - i.e. some "browser" features still demand using MS Edge instead of say, Chrome if you make Chrome your default.
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@Pete-S said in Windows 11 versus 10:
Sure but I didn't mean that. New OS often requires new hardware which means a new oem license for MS and also new opportunities to sell M365 and other services. I'm sure they have this down to a science.
Actually, that's not true. From windows 7-10 hardware requirements stayed the same or went down.
Win 11 with the requirement for TMP 2.0 is the first new required thing in ages.
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While we all agree the original release of Windows 11 and the 8th Gen Intel CPU requirement was garbage, it's now believed to be understood why this was put out by MS.
MS is including VBS (Virtual based Security) in Windows 11 22H2, which requires an 8th Gen Intel CPU.
Presuming this was MS's intention to include this on day one, but it wasn't ready for mainstream use - makes sense why the requirements where what they were. -
@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
While we all agree the original release of Windows 11 and the 8th Gen Intel CPU requirement was garbage, it's now believed to be understood why this was put out by MS.
MS is including VBS (Virtual based Security) in Windows 11 22H2, which requires an 8th Gen Intel CPU.
Presuming this was MS's intention to include this on day one, but it wasn't ready for mainstream use - makes sense why the requirements where what they were.That doesn't mean it should be required, only required for that feature. That, in no way, makes it better or "understood." Of course new CPUs have new features and we are limited by that. Windows 10 could get that feature and be in the same boat, but without artificially screwing people with old hardware.
So absolutely in no way is that WHY Microsoft made the limitation. That limitation is 100% to sell more hardware, period. That's not even plausible marketing BS to say that they made that limitation "because" of some unreleased new feature. That's not the case.
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@travisdh1 said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@Pete-S said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@JaredBusch said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@Pete-S said in Windows 11 versus 10:
Or is it just the usual make-a-new-version-so-we-can-market-and-sell-upgrades?
You know they haven’t sold windows upgrades for years now right?
Sure but I didn't mean that. New OS often requires new hardware which means a new oem license for MS and also new opportunities to sell M365 and other services. I'm sure they have this down to a science.
There are artificial hardware requirements they threw in with Windows 11. The big one being "require" TPM2.0.
Doesn't actually USE any of the features added in 2.0 compared to 1.2, of course.
This, no matter what excuses they make, the requirements seen thus far are absolutely artificial.
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I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
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@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
my question is - do they need innovation? Other than performance improvements - is windows 10/11 any better than windows 7? performance is an under the hood thing...
This is a business tool - not some stupid home gadget - Windows doesn't need flashing lights. -
@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
my question is - do they need innovation? Other than performance improvements - is windows 10/11 any better than windows 7? performance is an under the hood thing...
This is a business tool - not some stupid home gadget - Windows doesn't need flashing lights.Need innovation? No, not for their userbase. But their competition continues in innovate for customers that value ever increasing performance of their workers.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
my question is - do they need innovation? Other than performance improvements - is windows 10/11 any better than windows 7? performance is an under the hood thing...
This is a business tool - not some stupid home gadget - Windows doesn't need flashing lights.Need innovation? No, not for their userbase. But their competition continues in innovate for customers that value ever increasing performance of their workers.
in the windows space? i.e. mac desktop/laptops? or Linux based laptops/desktops?
I mean I guess it's possible they are innovating there - ever increasing performance - can you provide any examples?
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@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
in the windows space? i.e. mac desktop/laptops? or Linux based laptops/desktops?
Anything but Windows.
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@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I mean I guess it's possible they are innovating there - ever increasing performance - can you provide any examples?
Well for example Mac heavily is innovating on the hardware side giving dramatically more power / performance with lower power consumption at a lower price than the Windows world. They've flipped the tables on Windows making it impractically expensive to use Windows on AMD64 for mid-performance applications (like video editing.)
In the Linux world you have heavy workflow innovation with new workspace and interaction design taking the lead with experimentation and improvements in how people work with their operating systems.
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@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
my question is - do they need innovation? Other than performance improvements - is windows 10/11 any better than windows 7? performance is an under the hood thing...
This is a business tool - not some stupid home gadget - Windows doesn't need flashing lights.Is this what people said when windows 95 came out and replaced 3.11? I don’t get the hate from people for changing the looks. As time goes on, people find better ways to interact with systems esp with touch screens being prevalent and the ever changing landscape of screen sizes.
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@stacksofplates said in Windows 11 versus 10:
Is this what people said when windows 95 came out and replaced 3.11?
Basically yes. Every version of Windows has been a very small incremental update from the users perspective.
The overlapping windows user interface was established with Windows 2.03 and to be honest, it worked pretty much the same then as it does today.
Sometimes there has been under-the-hood changes but usually also very incremental. With the notable exception of Windows NT which was a completely different OS under the hood.
Windows 95 didn't exactly replace 3.11 because Microsoft replaced 3.11 with Windows NT 3.1 for business users and Windows 95 for consumers. Different kernels under the hood.
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@stacksofplates said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
my question is - do they need innovation? Other than performance improvements - is windows 10/11 any better than windows 7? performance is an under the hood thing...
This is a business tool - not some stupid home gadget - Windows doesn't need flashing lights.Is this what people said when windows 95 came out and replaced 3.11? I don’t get the hate from people for changing the looks. As time goes on, people find better ways to interact with systems esp with touch screens being prevalent and the ever changing landscape of screen sizes.
Sure - things definitely were easier in Win95 compared to Win3.11 - but I would say that things aren't any easier today than they were in Win11 vs Win95.
I've used a Mac literally like 3 times - I have no clue if their interface has become more efficient over the years. and the same from a desktop POV on Linux based systems (though I would love to see some examples how the Linux desktop GUI has made things better workflow wise over the past whatever timeframe you like).
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@stacksofplates said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
my question is - do they need innovation? Other than performance improvements - is windows 10/11 any better than windows 7? performance is an under the hood thing...
This is a business tool - not some stupid home gadget - Windows doesn't need flashing lights.Is this what people said when windows 95 came out and replaced 3.11? I don’t get the hate from people for changing the looks. As time goes on, people find better ways to interact with systems esp with touch screens being prevalent and the ever changing landscape of screen sizes.
I'm not hating on the looks ( I just don't care about the differences - because to me they are differences for the sake of visual differences, but the function is nearly the same).
Sure MS has added snap to edge/snip tool/AV/firewall/etc - so yes there are improvements - but the user barely sees those things - hence people asking - what's different? - oh, nothing? yeah figures.
Of course Win8 was a HUGE change and people hated it - and MS backpeddled and went closer to Win7 when they released Win10.
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@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@stacksofplates said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
my question is - do they need innovation? Other than performance improvements - is windows 10/11 any better than windows 7? performance is an under the hood thing...
This is a business tool - not some stupid home gadget - Windows doesn't need flashing lights.Is this what people said when windows 95 came out and replaced 3.11? I don’t get the hate from people for changing the looks. As time goes on, people find better ways to interact with systems esp with touch screens being prevalent and the ever changing landscape of screen sizes.
Sure - things definitely were easier in Win95 compared to Win3.11 - but I would say that things aren't any easier today than they were in Win11 vs Win95.
I've used a Mac literally like 3 times - I have no clue if their interface has become more efficient over the years. and the same from a desktop POV on Linux based systems (though I would love to see some examples how the Linux desktop GUI has made things better workflow wise over the past whatever timeframe you like).
Windows 95's big UI change was the introduction of the start menu and taskbar.
The guy who did the UI work back then said that he was unimpressed with Windows 10 because he thought nothing had changed in more than 20 years.
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@Pete-S said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@stacksofplates said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@Dashrender said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
@siringo said in Windows 11 versus 10:
I just hate these bloody upgrades or whatever you want to call them.
When I was younger it was exciting/interesting, now it's just a PITA.
I hate them because I know they will move or make you have to do something unimportant, that you have always done, be done differently. Where's notepad? Oh it's called Scribbler now. Where's Windows Explorer? Oh it's called File Finder.
Why do we have to learn new names for the same old crap.
Imagine doing that with cars. Press the accelerator, oh it's called the Make it faster button now!
I don't care about the new tech tricks and improvements, I just want to use my PC and get my work done so my day is as stress free as possible.
Old grumpy bastard complaining, yeah, probably. Don't worry, it'll happen to you.
Really only a Windows thing. They rename to distract from the lack of innovation.
my question is - do they need innovation? Other than performance improvements - is windows 10/11 any better than windows 7? performance is an under the hood thing...
This is a business tool - not some stupid home gadget - Windows doesn't need flashing lights.Is this what people said when windows 95 came out and replaced 3.11? I don’t get the hate from people for changing the looks. As time goes on, people find better ways to interact with systems esp with touch screens being prevalent and the ever changing landscape of screen sizes.
Sure - things definitely were easier in Win95 compared to Win3.11 - but I would say that things aren't any easier today than they were in Win11 vs Win95.
I've used a Mac literally like 3 times - I have no clue if their interface has become more efficient over the years. and the same from a desktop POV on Linux based systems (though I would love to see some examples how the Linux desktop GUI has made things better workflow wise over the past whatever timeframe you like).
Windows 95's big UI change was the introduction of the start menu and taskbar.
The guy who did the UI work back then said that he was unimpressed with Windows 10 because he thought nothing had changed in more than 20 years.
From a general standpoint - I completely agree with him.
And really - how is Mac's GUI or any of the Linux GUI's really any better.Scott jump to hardware, while completely outside the specific discussion of OS's, at least does show a value prop on the Mac side if you can make the switch.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 11 versus 10:
In the Linux world you have heavy workflow innovation with new workspace and interaction design taking the lead with experimentation and improvements in how people work with their operating systems.
The Windows world has that too, but we don't say Windows has improved because Adobe Reader improved, versus saying Linux improved because Gnome improved... or are you just referring to the Linux kernel?
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Hated Vista, moved to Linux. I wasn't supporting Linux, so jumped to XP, was happy with XP. Then happier with 7. Didn't use 8. 10 is OK, 11? Not even looked at it, I have no need, just like I had no need to look at 7, 8 or 10.
As for improvements in workflow, users put shortcuts to the things they use on the desktop & taskbar, you've been able to do that since 95 so maybe there is no improvement since then.
If the UI is altered and generic apps renamed, the workflow will drop/decrease until the changes are learnt. So is there any benefit at all in changing the UI and names???
