Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?
-
@ITivan80 said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
here is some thoughts on the matter:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/series/more-topics/school-shooting-bible-meaning-hope/
Even though it is article is geared towards school shootings. It is also helpful to understand the principle motives behind them.
I feel like I've just been rick rolled or trolled - not sure which one actually applies...
basically you're blaming (or the article is) the end of days - judgement day? to each their own I guess.
-
@Dashrender no rick rolled here. Just an understanding of the times we are currently living in. Here is a magazine that may help us all understand the why
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/awake-no1-2019-mar-apr/under-gods-kingdom/
-
One thing I see very few people mention... the news and media constantly talk about the number of deaths much like it is a "score". There is a gamification element in the system.
-
@PhlipElder said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Another possible reason I thought of was, sheer boredom with "idle hands."
Heck, "They started quarreling out of sheer boredom" is used as the example in the Cambridge dictionary.
So to that end:
I'm wondering if lately, the whole trophy for everyone/entitlement mentality is a driving force for younger people doing this.
It's possible. One would think inclusion would give a sense of pride but maybe it is having the reverse affect.
Inclusion stops once they are out of school and the real world smacks them upside the head. There is no inclusion in the normal workforce.
That said - all the under 24 year olds - well - I'm not sure school is really that inclusive, children certainly are not. Age is what generally bring pemper to people... You see all kinds of collage age people protesting, etc - but the older folk - not so much. The youth are generally the ones really bucking the system, that "teenage rebellion stage" which lasts well into most of their 20's...
We home school. We do so for good reason.
Same here.
-
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@PhlipElder said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Criminals gonna perp. Guns gonna be available to them in perpetuity. That has not changed since perps smuggled spears into "spear free zones" and started slashing.
reminds me of Back to the Future 3 - Tannan with a gun in his hat
Yeah - you're not wrong.
Short of killing all ability to acquire shooting weapons - specific no-shooty weapons zones will always be hit by the criminals.
And even once you make shooty's illegal - it will probably take 30+ years to get enough off the streets before you actually see a decline in violence caused by them.
It's just an impractical battle from the anti-shooty people.
Real world examples say that you can take guns away quickly and effectively. It's been done in large countries before to great effect. You can want or not want gun control of different sorts, that's a different issue. But the ability to take them off of the streets and make them all but impossible to get and easy to identify when rogue (that's the biggest deal) is actually quite easy and the US is anything but an exception to the norm.
-
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Another possible reason I thought of was, sheer boredom with "idle hands."
Heck, "They started quarreling out of sheer boredom" is used as the example in the Cambridge dictionary.
So to that end:
I'm wondering if lately, the whole trophy for everyone/entitlement mentality is a driving force for younger people doing this.
It's possible. One would think inclusion would give a sense of pride but maybe it is having the reverse affect.
Participation trophies are a form of mockery, not inclusion.
-
@PhlipElder said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@PhlipElder said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Yup. And there's a distinct/direct correlation between guns and crime and the Democrat Party.
Please expand that thought.
Chicago - Shots, Shots, Shots
DC - Shots, Shots, ShotsAgain, look at the FBI statistics. It's not hard to put together what party affiliation the anti-gun powers that be belong to.
We live in an era of "Think this way because experts say so" without anyone taking the time to actually dig in to the statistics. That's all it takes is to put some effort and critical thinking skills into something to figure out who is blowing it out their arse and who is not.
Biggest shooting zones for just gun deaths are not those cities. EVeryone points to them because they are big, but their rates are actually not that bad.
St. Louis is the worst in the US, and is anything but blue. Shootings happen where there are more guns. MAybe because of guns, maybe because of people who want guns. But the math is solid... where you allow guns, you allow shootings.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Another possible reason I thought of was, sheer boredom with "idle hands."
Heck, "They started quarreling out of sheer boredom" is used as the example in the Cambridge dictionary.
So to that end:
I'm wondering if lately, the whole trophy for everyone/entitlement mentality is a driving force for younger people doing this.
It's possible. One would think inclusion would give a sense of pride but maybe it is having the reverse affect.
Participation trophies are a form of mockery, not inclusion.
That I totally understand. It seems that the ones handing them out, don't.
-
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Another possible reason I thought of was, sheer boredom with "idle hands."
Heck, "They started quarreling out of sheer boredom" is used as the example in the Cambridge dictionary.
So to that end:
I'm wondering if lately, the whole trophy for everyone/entitlement mentality is a driving force for younger people doing this.
I personally doubt it, but it is an interesting theory. Loads of idle youth being told hell and brimstone by the religious side, political division by the government, and both ecological and economic gloom and doom by everyone. Give them lots of guns, lots of angst and nothing else to do and you definitely could get this.
It's a solid thought. Unlikely I think, but it has merit.
-
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Another possible reason I thought of was, sheer boredom with "idle hands."
Heck, "They started quarreling out of sheer boredom" is used as the example in the Cambridge dictionary.
So to that end:
I'm wondering if lately, the whole trophy for everyone/entitlement mentality is a driving force for younger people doing this.
It's possible. One would think inclusion would give a sense of pride but maybe it is having the reverse affect.
Participation trophies are a form of mockery, not inclusion.
That I totally understand. It seems that the ones handing them out, don't.
Why doesn't it seem that way? I think that they seem pretty clear on their mockery and not taking the kids seriously in any way end to end. Every witnessed education at play in the US? It's mockery to them, for sure.
-
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@PhlipElder said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
EDIT 2: Switzerland. Every household has a gun. It's mandatory service there. Where's the mass shootings?
We have one of the highest per capita firearms ownership up here and yet where are the mass shootings?
Why is that? Why would the focus be on disarming the US as a nation? What could the possible motive be for removing over 300M firearms from We the People's hands?
I think another issue we have is that we are looked at as a single country (of course which we are) but really we shouldn't be. At best we should be look regionally or only at the state level. That would put us comparably much closer to the rest of the world. Granted we'll have places like Nebraska/S. Dakota/N. Dakota/Montanna have super low populations compared to our landmasses.. but still.. stop looking at the USA as a single thing - and break it into more closely related parts for your comparisons.
HOw would it make us more comparable? Remember that shootings are done as "rates", not whole numbers. Breaking it up would make some states better and some worse, but the average would still be the worst in the world - it would not change at all because no matter how much you break it up, the percentages stay the same. That's why percentages are what we use so that size has no bearing.
-
@PhlipElder said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Why is that? Why would the focus be on disarming the US as a nation? What could the possible motive be for removing over 300M firearms from We the People's hands?
BEcause other countries that have had this issue were able to solve it that way. The number of nations with large numbers of firearms and safety are few and VERY differnet from the US....
I'll post why.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Another possible reason I thought of was, sheer boredom with "idle hands."
Heck, "They started quarreling out of sheer boredom" is used as the example in the Cambridge dictionary.
So to that end:
I'm wondering if lately, the whole trophy for everyone/entitlement mentality is a driving force for younger people doing this.
It's possible. One would think inclusion would give a sense of pride but maybe it is having the reverse affect.
Participation trophies are a form of mockery, not inclusion.
That I totally understand. It seems that the ones handing them out, don't.
Why doesn't it seem that way? I think that they seem pretty clear on their mockery and not taking the kids seriously in any way end to end. Every witnessed education at play in the US? It's mockery to them, for sure.
If they know it then why do it unless they expect something in return?
If not then, I think the parents/adults believe it is for their children's mental protection and will do anything to not let them feel bad. The rest of the planet knows in the long term the mockery is detrimental to their children's future.
-
I literally had this discussion three days ago on a bus loaded with Israeli soldiers asking the same question. Why is Israel full of guns and the US full of guns but the US has loads of mass shootings and Israel, while threatened constantly, doesn't shoot themselves almost ever.
Why so different?
Easy, but not obvious. Israel is like Switzerland... a tiny place full of a single well identified single group that see themselves as a "team" or "group" separate from the rest of the world. It is exclusive, we are all "us". A mass shooting in Israel means shooting other Israelis... friends, family, neighbors, relatives... people of your group. Same in Switzerland, or basically any safe country with guns.
The US is the polar opposite. We have huge political, racial, economic, state, ideological, religious and other divides. We are a nation built on the right of cults to exist (literally the founding principle) and so because Everyone identifies as a part of many groups - all pretty small (almost all).
Pick any American....
- Catholic, black, republican, northern
- Baptist, white, democrat, southern
- Muslim, hispanic, green, California
ANd so on. Each of those, and other major groups, are divisive. Religions by their nature are about dividing and sowing hatred against other groups - their basis is isolating people to control them. So the religious fervor and disparity in the US is among the most extreme in the world and the gov't is tied into it. That along pits people against each other like the EUropean reformation but all inside a single country.
Then we have huge racial divides. Switzerland and Israel do not, anything but. So like it or not, racial groups will always have a certain amount of "us and them", even if they love each other, they love each other as "different".
Poiitical divides are common anywhere, but few countries put politics on the religious level that the US does. And most don't have the two party system - Swiss and Israeli governments are coalition governments that reduce political tension to a us/them divide.It's uniquely (almost) divisive in the US.
Regions i the US are extreme. As a NYer, someone from Georgia might be a wonderful person, but in no way from "where I am from". They are a foreigner to me in culture, accent, beliefs and vice versa. Even NY and California that seem to share a lot ideologically think nothing alike and while they might like each other, they don't want to be that close to one another.
Even historically, different parts of the US have different religions, languages, and founding history. MOst of the US comes from French and Spanish colonies, some like me from Dutch, and some from British. Almost all were forced together against their will. It's conquered territory, not a "coming together of neighbors".
Everything about the American journey is one of "disparate people mashed together" and it carries huge risk. The things that make small, homogenous places generally safe, makes America naturally very, very dangerous.
-
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
If they know it then why do it unless they expect something in return?
Because it looks good to the political people who determine their jobs.
-
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
If not then, I think the parents/adults believe it is for their children's mental protection and will do anything to not let them feel bad. The rest of the planet knows in the long term the mockery is detrimental to their children's future.
As a parent, I think exactly the opposite and I see the toll the constant mockery has on others. Kids know very well when they get "praised" for doing badly.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
If not then, I think the parents/adults believe it is for their children's mental protection and will do anything to not let them feel bad. The rest of the planet knows in the long term the mockery is detrimental to their children's future.
As a parent, I think exactly the opposite and I see the toll the constant mockery has on others. Kids know very well when they get "praised" for doing badly.
I agree.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@PhlipElder said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Criminals gonna perp. Guns gonna be available to them in perpetuity. That has not changed since perps smuggled spears into "spear free zones" and started slashing.
reminds me of Back to the Future 3 - Tannan with a gun in his hat
Yeah - you're not wrong.
Short of killing all ability to acquire shooting weapons - specific no-shooty weapons zones will always be hit by the criminals.
And even once you make shooty's illegal - it will probably take 30+ years to get enough off the streets before you actually see a decline in violence caused by them.
It's just an impractical battle from the anti-shooty people.
Real world examples say that you can take guns away quickly and effectively. It's been done in large countries before to great effect. You can want or not want gun control of different sorts, that's a different issue. But the ability to take them off of the streets and make them all but impossible to get and easy to identify when rogue (that's the biggest deal) is actually quite easy and the US is anything but an exception to the norm.
Well - sure if you are the gestapo! Though frankly - I think the gov't trying to do that in the USA would lead to large amounts of violence on it's own.
Sure overnight you could remove all store based sales of weapons - likely to get as much resistance - send police to the homes of registered gun owners - likely to meet a lot of resistance.
And yes you'll remove the guns from gang members as the gangs are caught with the guns - but I'm sure there is a huge amount of underground guns that will continue to circulate for a while - several years at least.But in the end - do you think this will solve the problem? Sure it will reduce mass shootings - but now we'll see IEDs become the replacement, or people just driving into crowded spaces, etc.
The underlying issue will still remain. - which was what the OP was asking about... what is the underlying issue - and is it actually solvable?
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@pmoncho said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
Another possible reason I thought of was, sheer boredom with "idle hands."
Heck, "They started quarreling out of sheer boredom" is used as the example in the Cambridge dictionary.
So to that end:
I'm wondering if lately, the whole trophy for everyone/entitlement mentality is a driving force for younger people doing this.
It's possible. One would think inclusion would give a sense of pride but maybe it is having the reverse affect.
Participation trophies are a form of mockery, not inclusion.
That I totally understand. It seems that the ones handing them out, don't.
Why doesn't it seem that way? I think that they seem pretty clear on their mockery and not taking the kids seriously in any way end to end. Every witnessed education at play in the US? It's mockery to them, for sure.
So you think it's intentional? if so - why?
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@Dashrender said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
@PhlipElder said in Why have mass shootings increased - you thoughts?:
EDIT 2: Switzerland. Every household has a gun. It's mandatory service there. Where's the mass shootings?
We have one of the highest per capita firearms ownership up here and yet where are the mass shootings?
Why is that? Why would the focus be on disarming the US as a nation? What could the possible motive be for removing over 300M firearms from We the People's hands?
I think another issue we have is that we are looked at as a single country (of course which we are) but really we shouldn't be. At best we should be look regionally or only at the state level. That would put us comparably much closer to the rest of the world. Granted we'll have places like Nebraska/S. Dakota/N. Dakota/Montanna have super low populations compared to our landmasses.. but still.. stop looking at the USA as a single thing - and break it into more closely related parts for your comparisons.
HOw would it make us more comparable? Remember that shootings are done as "rates", not whole numbers. Breaking it up would make some states better and some worse, but the average would still be the worst in the world - it would not change at all because no matter how much you break it up, the percentages stay the same. That's why percentages are what we use so that size has no bearing.
Because if you look at California vs say Nebraska (and I haven't yet) it could show huge problems in cali, but not so much in nebraska - which means NE is a safer place to live.
just an example.
