Azure or 0365?



  • From Here we see some people have a different opinion, so lets discuss that outside of a public thread -

    Currently I'm looking into Azure Fundamentals through Microsoft learn (we're slow in the office at the moment so - Bettering myself.)
    @Dashrender suggests looking into 0365 management for SMB
    While others (@Obsolesce ) is suggesting Azure is the place to start .

    Let's discuss.



  • I made my comment based on where you are today. If you're goal is to do something completely different - the Azure stuff could be great for you.



  • @Dashrender said in Azure or 0365?:

    I made my comment based on where you are today. If you're goal is to do something completely different - the Azure stuff could be great for you.

    Oh absolutely my Goal is to get out of here - I'm still looking and applying to other jobs.
    but let's talk about where I would use 0365 - Could I use it in my current position? I think it's unlikely, but possible..
    which would be the better way to go?



  • It doesn't matter where u are at your job. Your job and career are two totally separate things. What do YOU want to do? Do you love email and AD? Is that what you want to deal with? Then sure, steer your career that way.

    Do you want to steer your career towards the future and work with cloud technologies at a larger place and easily break $100k, or stay supporting small business with their onprem hardware and AD?



  • @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    Currently I'm looking into Azure Fundamentals through Microsoft learn (we're slow in the office at the moment so - Bettering myself.)
    @Dashrender suggests looking into 0365 management for SMB
    While others (@Obsolesce ) is suggesting Azure is the place to start .

    Let's discuss.

    I agree with @Dashrender that office 365 is certainly the first place to start. I'd master that and get certified and then move into azure.

    You're gonna need both, but office 365 is better for you right now. Because entry level IT jobs will work with office 365 on a daily basis. Azure is better once you get past that entry level IT and have a greater grasp of things.



  • @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    It doesn't matter where u are at your job. Your job and career are two totally separate things. What do YOU want to do? Do you love email and AD? Is that what you want to deal with? Then sure, steer your career that way.

    I disagree with you here, bud. You can't go from hardware grunt to DevOps engineer. You gotta take some steps on between.



  • @IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    Currently I'm looking into Azure Fundamentals through Microsoft learn (we're slow in the office at the moment so - Bettering myself.)
    @Dashrender suggests looking into 0365 management for SMB
    While others (@Obsolesce ) is suggesting Azure is the place to start .

    Let's discuss.

    I agree with @Dashrender that office 365 is certainly the first place to start. I'd master that and get certified and then move into azure.

    You're gonna need both, but office 365 is better for you right now. Because entry level IT jobs will work with office 365 on a daily basis. Azure is better once you get past that entry level IT and have a greater grasp of things.

    I think learning the bare basics or fundamentals of the platform it all runs on and is integrated with is a better place to start, then O365 if you want to go that route.



  • @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    @IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    Currently I'm looking into Azure Fundamentals through Microsoft learn (we're slow in the office at the moment so - Bettering myself.)
    @Dashrender suggests looking into 0365 management for SMB
    While others (@Obsolesce ) is suggesting Azure is the place to start .

    Let's discuss.

    I agree with @Dashrender that office 365 is certainly the first place to start. I'd master that and get certified and then move into azure.

    You're gonna need both, but office 365 is better for you right now. Because entry level IT jobs will work with office 365 on a daily basis. Azure is better once you get past that entry level IT and have a greater grasp of things.

    I think learning the bare basics or fundamentals of the platform it all runs on and is integrated with is a better place to start, then O365 if you want to go that route.

    For junior level positions you will not be asked to do anything with Azure. But there is plenty of busy work to do with office 365 for junior techs.



  • @IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:

    @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    It doesn't matter where u are at your job. Your job and career are two totally separate things. What do YOU want to do? Do you love email and AD? Is that what you want to deal with? Then sure, steer your career that way.

    I disagree with you here, bud. You can from hardware grunt to DevOps engineer. You gotta take some steps on between.

    If you are a car mechanic, and want to become a surgeon, do you start with learning heart surgery or start with the basics.

    For me personally, Azure fundamentals would have made AAD and O365 easier, plus the fundamentals are faster to learn than diving in to a specific technology at certification level.



  • @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    @IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:

    @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    It doesn't matter where u are at your job. Your job and career are two totally separate things. What do YOU want to do? Do you love email and AD? Is that what you want to deal with? Then sure, steer your career that way.

    I disagree with you here, bud. You can from hardware grunt to DevOps engineer. You gotta take some steps on between.

    If you are a car mechanic, and want to become a surgeon, do you start with learning heart surgery or start with the basics.

    Let's try this one...

    If you're a grunt changing oil at tire kingdom and you want to do custom builds for people, you don't learn about body work and painting until you've mastered mechanics.

    Do people who do body work and custom paint jobs make wayyy more money... Yes they do. Should he strive to be that? Yes

    But you can only take logical steps to get thee. You could learn basics of painting a car or you could learn how to troubleshoot fuel related issues in a car. Which one of those will provide a better stepping stone and still be relevant to building custom cars and allow you to advance to next level. You need to understand fuel troubleshooting to become a Ford/Honda/whatever mechanic.



  • @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    From Here we see some people have a different opinion, so lets discuss that outside of a public thread -

    Currently I'm looking into Azure Fundamentals through Microsoft learn (we're slow in the office at the moment so - Bettering myself.)
    @Dashrender suggests looking into 0365 management for SMB
    While others (@Obsolesce ) is suggesting Azure is the place to start .

    Let's discuss.

    So as careers go, the simplest thing is that... these are basically two very different jobs. One is primarily IaaS/PaaS management (platform administration) and the other is SaaS (application administration.) Learning Azure means your focus is going to be on the backend very heavily dealing with VMs, automation, systems people, etc. System admins are your customers.

    O365 is an suite of applications that may or may not run on top of Azure (you can actually get O365 on Amazon under the right conditions!) O365 is end user applications, so it's learning how to deal with users, accounts, services and your customers are end users.



  • @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    @Dashrender said in Azure or 0365?:

    I made my comment based on where you are today. If you're goal is to do something completely different - the Azure stuff could be great for you.

    Oh absolutely my Goal is to get out of here - I'm still looking and applying to other jobs.
    but let's talk about where I would use 0365 - Could I use it in my current position? I think it's unlikely, but possible..
    which would be the better way to go?

    O365 is used broadly by almost every kind of company. From tiny five person shops to giant enterprises. It's a very... portable skill.



  • @IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:

    @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    It doesn't matter where u are at your job. Your job and career are two totally separate things. What do YOU want to do? Do you love email and AD? Is that what you want to deal with? Then sure, steer your career that way.

    I disagree with you here, bud. You can't go from hardware grunt to DevOps engineer. You gotta take some steps on between.

    I'm not sure that I agree. I think that you can. Consider you can get into any IT field during high school or immediately thereafter without any previous experience, it follows that having started in one area of IT (or nearly IT) and getting ready to go to entry level in another IT discipline would be no harder.

    Sure, CIO is out of reach, or manager, but any technical silo should have its entry point equally in reach.



  • @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    @IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    Currently I'm looking into Azure Fundamentals through Microsoft learn (we're slow in the office at the moment so - Bettering myself.)
    @Dashrender suggests looking into 0365 management for SMB
    While others (@Obsolesce ) is suggesting Azure is the place to start .

    Let's discuss.

    I agree with @Dashrender that office 365 is certainly the first place to start. I'd master that and get certified and then move into azure.

    You're gonna need both, but office 365 is better for you right now. Because entry level IT jobs will work with office 365 on a daily basis. Azure is better once you get past that entry level IT and have a greater grasp of things.

    I think learning the bare basics or fundamentals of the platform it all runs on and is integrated with is a better place to start, then O365 if you want to go that route.

    I don't know if that helps any. O365 is completely independent of Azure. Like today, knowing the hardware your VM is running on makes no different to a system admin. Your operating system doesn't care if it's on Azure, AWS, or ProxMox. The OS runs the same. If you don't have any control of the lower platform and are just handed resources, it's all the same at that level. O365 is another layer above that. To an O365 admin, you don't even care what OS it is running on (and most people don't know for sure) or what hardware/cloud it is on. That's all 100% abstracted away.

    All learning is good learning. But learning Azure is essentially random if the goal is O365.



  • I'll ask again, what do YOU want to do? That will determine which path you will want to take. Both will work, in different ways. What kind of jobs do you want to look for next? Both options are equally fine, but are different disciplines, with some overlap in some areas. Both will help with the other, but personal taste will come in to play.

    Click the headers for Microsoft's breakdown of what's in each skill listed below.

    MS-900: Microsoft 365 Fundamentals AZ-900: Microsoft Azure Fundamentals
    Describe cloud concepts (10-15%) Describe cloud concepts (20-25%)
    Describe core Microsoft 365 services and concepts (30-35%) Describe core Azure services (15-20%)
    Explain security, compliance, privacy, and trust in Microsoft 365 (30-35%) Describe core solutions and management tools on Azure (10-15%)
    Describe Microsoft 365 pricing and support (20-25%) Describe general security and network security features (10-15%)
    Describe identity, governance, privacy, and compliance features (20-25%)
    Describe Azure cost management and Service Level Agreements (10-15%)


  • Obs is right, what interest you will make the biggest difference. Both are valid career paths.



  • I was told by multiple people that cloud is the future and that's the best place to put your money -
    I would have to agree- I'm leaning more towards Azure / Cloud computing and learning more about databases.. ( i have no idea if they are connected - Like I said, In the past, I'm an idiot about a lot of things)



  • @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    I was told by multiple people that cloud is the future and that's the best place to put your money

    You tend to get a lot of this "told by people". But never by people who are credible in any way. "The cloud is the future" is one of those totally BS statements that has never been said by anyone who actually knows what the cloud is. First of all "the cloud" means the Internet, not cloud. Second, "cloud computing" was the "future" in 2002, it's way, way, way past the point of being the future, it's now a tried and true component of the ecosystem that has long since passed from any credibility as a hot buzzword.

    No one who says "the cloud is the future" is someone you should be talking to, at all, about this stuff. This is the kind of stuff we mock, constantly, as "end users repeating words they heard somewhere trying to sound smart." Cloud computing is critical, it's brilliant, it's been around a LONG time, it's a stable part of the ecosystem, it's not replacing anything it's just complimenting in a very organic way.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    I was told by multiple people that cloud is the future and that's the best place to put your money

    You tend to get a lot of this "told by people". But never by people who are credible in any way. "The cloud is the future" is one of those totally BS statements that has never been said by anyone who actually knows what the cloud is. First of all "the cloud" means the Internet, not cloud. Second, "cloud computing" was the "future" in 2002, it's way, way, way past the point of being the future, it's now a tried and true component of the ecosystem that has long since passed from any credibility as a hot buzzword.

    No one who says "the cloud is the future" is someone you should be talking to, at all, about this stuff. This is the kind of stuff we mock, constantly, as "end users repeating words they heard somewhere trying to sound smart." Cloud computing is critical, it's brilliant, it's been around a LONG time, it's a stable part of the ecosystem, it's not replacing anything it's just complimenting in a very organic way.

    @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    Do you want to steer your career towards the future and work with cloud technologies at a larger place and easily break $100k, or stay supporting small business with their onprem hardware and AD?



  • @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    I was told by multiple people that cloud is the future and that's the best place to put your money -
    I would have to agree- I'm leaning more towards Azure / Cloud computing and learning more about databases.. ( i have no idea if they are connected - Like I said, In the past, I'm an idiot about a lot of things)

    Well, if you plan on being at your current role for ~6 more months, you can do both well in that time frame. You could certainly get a free trial at one of the good online training centers and check the content of them bout out.

    Udemy
    ACloudGuru
    CloudAcademy
    Pluralsight
    YouTube



  • @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    I would have to agree- I'm leaning more towards Azure / Cloud computing and learning more about databases.. ( i have no idea if they are connected - Like I said, In the past, I'm an idiot about a lot of things)

    Databases are databases, an application. They are not cloud or not-cloud. Cloud computing is an architectural approach that doesn't really apply in that context.

    Right now, I'd say what you need most are the basics, not a focus on anything. Yes, learning what databases are is very critical. As is learning what cloud is. But those are things we'd expect you to know long before focusing on anything. I think what you are feeling with a lot of the things that you are trying to tackle is a lack of the fundamentals. If you learn Cloud Computing deeply (and a cert on Azure is unlikely to even teach you the basics), you are going to struggle if you don't have the broad context that it fits into. If you don't know what cloud is exactly, and already know that you are passionate about it, then rule it out, there's no way it's for you. At least not yet.



  • @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    @scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    I was told by multiple people that cloud is the future and that's the best place to put your money

    You tend to get a lot of this "told by people". But never by people who are credible in any way. "The cloud is the future" is one of those totally BS statements that has never been said by anyone who actually knows what the cloud is. First of all "the cloud" means the Internet, not cloud. Second, "cloud computing" was the "future" in 2002, it's way, way, way past the point of being the future, it's now a tried and true component of the ecosystem that has long since passed from any credibility as a hot buzzword.

    No one who says "the cloud is the future" is someone you should be talking to, at all, about this stuff. This is the kind of stuff we mock, constantly, as "end users repeating words they heard somewhere trying to sound smart." Cloud computing is critical, it's brilliant, it's been around a LONG time, it's a stable part of the ecosystem, it's not replacing anything it's just complimenting in a very organic way.

    @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    Do you want to steer your career towards the future and work with cloud technologies at a larger place and easily break $100k, or stay supporting small business with their onprem hardware and AD?

    He means YOUR future, a future of IT work. Where you work now, there's not a single person who could get employed at a serious IT shop. None. None of them know the tech, none of them do ethical business. That's not your future, is what he's saying.

    He's giving you a bigger picture.... look towards enterprise tech, and avoid dead end crap that has no place in most businesses. On prem AD has been a niche for a very long time, and one that doesn't apply to places like... your customers today.

    It's that what you do today is just implementing a script, written by monkeys with no IT oversight. Move to IT. It's not cloud vs. SMB on prem AD. It's modern, real IT work vs. something no self respecting business would act like.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    I would have to agree- I'm leaning more towards Azure / Cloud computing and learning more about databases.. ( i have no idea if they are connected - Like I said, In the past, I'm an idiot about a lot of things)

    Databases are databases, an application. They are not cloud or not-cloud. Cloud computing is an architectural approach that doesn't really apply in that context.

    Right now, I'd say what you need most are the basics, not a focus on anything. Yes, learning what databases are is very critical. As is learning what cloud is. But those are things we'd expect you to know long before focusing on anything. I think what you are feeling with a lot of the things that you are trying to tackle is a lack of the fundamentals. If you learn Cloud Computing deeply (and a cert on Azure is unlikely to even teach you the basics), you are going to struggle if you don't have the broad context that it fits into. If you don't know what cloud is exactly, and already know that you are passionate about it, then rule it out, there's no way it's for you. At least not yet.

    This is interesting - so - what are the basics? Is that the purpose of the thread of IT topics you posted the other day?



  • @scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    @scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    I was told by multiple people that cloud is the future and that's the best place to put your money

    You tend to get a lot of this "told by people". But never by people who are credible in any way. "The cloud is the future" is one of those totally BS statements that has never been said by anyone who actually knows what the cloud is. First of all "the cloud" means the Internet, not cloud. Second, "cloud computing" was the "future" in 2002, it's way, way, way past the point of being the future, it's now a tried and true component of the ecosystem that has long since passed from any credibility as a hot buzzword.

    No one who says "the cloud is the future" is someone you should be talking to, at all, about this stuff. This is the kind of stuff we mock, constantly, as "end users repeating words they heard somewhere trying to sound smart." Cloud computing is critical, it's brilliant, it's been around a LONG time, it's a stable part of the ecosystem, it's not replacing anything it's just complimenting in a very organic way.

    @Obsolesce said in Azure or 0365?:

    Do you want to steer your career towards the future and work with cloud technologies at a larger place and easily break $100k, or stay supporting small business with their onprem hardware and AD?

    He means YOUR future, a future of IT work. Where you work now, there's not a single person who could get employed at a serious IT shop. None. None of them know the tech, none of them do ethical business. That's not your future, is what he's saying.

    He's giving you a bigger picture.... look towards enterprise tech, and avoid dead end crap that has no place in most businesses. On prem AD has been a niche for a very long time, and one that doesn't apply to places like... your customers today.

    It's that what you do today is just implementing a script, written by monkeys with no IT oversight. Move to IT. It's not cloud vs. SMB on prem AD. It's modern, real IT work vs. something no self respecting business would act like.

    that makes a lot more sense that what I thought he was saying.



  • @Dashrender said in Azure or 0365?:

    @scottalanmiller said in Azure or 0365?:

    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    I would have to agree- I'm leaning more towards Azure / Cloud computing and learning more about databases.. ( i have no idea if they are connected - Like I said, In the past, I'm an idiot about a lot of things)

    Databases are databases, an application. They are not cloud or not-cloud. Cloud computing is an architectural approach that doesn't really apply in that context.

    Right now, I'd say what you need most are the basics, not a focus on anything. Yes, learning what databases are is very critical. As is learning what cloud is. But those are things we'd expect you to know long before focusing on anything. I think what you are feeling with a lot of the things that you are trying to tackle is a lack of the fundamentals. If you learn Cloud Computing deeply (and a cert on Azure is unlikely to even teach you the basics), you are going to struggle if you don't have the broad context that it fits into. If you don't know what cloud is exactly, and already know that you are passionate about it, then rule it out, there's no way it's for you. At least not yet.

    This is interesting - so - what are the basics? Is that the purpose of the thread of IT topics you posted the other day?

    That's a really tough part and something I wish that I could answer. But I know that a lot of this stuff is stuff that I was learning in middle school. Long before getting into the field. Like what databases are and how they work. I'm not saying that other people should have magic access to know these things, but this was decades ago with no Internet. Today, learning what databases are, what the cloud is, etc. these are all really accessible. Sure, lots more misinformation now, too. So the first step is learning to identify good info, that's key to living in the highly connected world. Can use that 1950's pro-business "anyone who can afford to publish is always correct" logic, we have to actually evaluate sources.

    I'd LOVE to find a way to write a book or make a guide on "The Fundamentals of IT", I think it is HIGHLY needed. But it's SO broad, I have no idea how to approach it.



  • How many times have we had this discussion of you asking what to learn? We go back and forth about it and you never end up choosing either path or leaning anything.

    You also aren't new to IT anymore. You should know these concepts by now.

    Asking questions and making conversations is great, but shut up and learn also works well. Nobody is going to spoon feed you information. You can go to Udemy like everyone else and buy a course on a subject you want to learn for $15. Go through that course 2 or 3 times then come here and start asking questions.

    You'll get better answers when you ask specific questions and have some knowledge on topics.

    Not tryjng to be mean at all. It's just time to get out of the high chair and take off the bib.



  • @IRJ said in Azure or 0365?:

    Not tryjng to be mean at all.

    I would be. Seriously. This is way too much work from the community. He should have already learned shit and moved the fuck on.



  • The whole point of this was because I was getting multiple opinions about what I should be learning- which is also why "We continue to have this conversation about what I should learn" not to mention I was reading up on something that I thought was interesting - I never once thought that I needed everyone's opinion on what to learn.

    That's it, that's why I started the thread - to get it off of the other thread -
    so the community could discuss what I should be doing without bothering the other thread.

    as I saw it as a way to learn more about the industry - but I guess it's Fuck me for not knowing what I want to do and starting a discussion so people could talk about what they were starting to talk about somewhere else, just put it in a consolidated place - It is not my fault that everyone thought this was a "hey I need help figuring out what to learn..." even the OP says :
    @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    From Here we see some people have a different opinion, so lets discuss that outside of a public thread -

    Currently I'm looking into Azure Fundamentals through Microsoft learn (we're slow in the office at the moment so - Bettering myself.)
    @Dashrender suggests looking into 0365 management for SMB
    While others (@Obsolesce ) is suggesting Azure is the place to start .

    Let's discuss.

    Nowhere in that did I ask for help figuring it out. I wanted yall to have your conversation so I could see for myself, and make a decision that was right for me.

    Also - I'm still extremely new to IT, i have a basic understanding of a lot but nowhere close to where I want to be. I've made it a lot further than i was when I first started



  • Cause then, this could bring more people into ML and give them a place to look for themselves and figure out which would be better for them .
    cause it's all in one place. and could give someone else a better understanding.

    Delete the damn thread if it's a problem for people to have a conversation on their opinions of what's the best thing for certain situations.

    Everyone kept turning it to me, but that wasn't even close to what was supposed to happen.

    Yall were supposed to have a conversation about it - that wasn't on the other thread - that's not what that thread is for.



  • @WrCombs said in Azure or 0365?:

    The whole point of this was because I was getting multiple opinions about what I should be learning- which is also why "We continue to have this conversation about what I should learn" not to mention I was reading up on something that I thought was interesting - I never once thought that I needed everyone's opinion on what to learn.

    Not to get dragged into the "what question should be asked" debate. But to address "what you should be learning" I think is this simple...

    1. You need to do a baseline / survey of IT and know enough about all the real areas to understand what you like or are interested in.
    2. Look at what jobs won't exist in the future (e.g. DBA is essentially gone already and is diminishing, pretty much no career in that.) Not which ones will be hot, ignore that. But rule out ones that have no future at all.
    3. Taking #1 as a list, ruling out items from #2 as having no possibility path forward, you then have the list of what to learn. Start at the top. Do what you like. That's how you make yourself happy, and by being happy you succeed.

    This is a question that is answered inside yourself, asking if an IaaS/PaaS or SaaS career from Microsoft is right for you is unanswerable because both are valid, and extremely specific, career paths that are nothing alike. Either, both, neither. Only you can tell us.