Do you list your side business on your resume?
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@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
Back then, I had three. IT Director and Coordinator for a K12 school, Head of IT for NTG, and Senior Engineer for Wegmans/Dell/Microsoft/Veritas
This is really an exception to the policy. You are now, the only person I can name in the 30 years I have been in the IT industry as an employer, with literally hundreds of employees, that has had more than one full time W2 job at a time.
I'm the exception with two FULL TIME W2 jobs, but multiple W2 jobs was common. W2 doesn't imply full time.
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@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
Back then, I had three. IT Director and Coordinator for a K12 school, Head of IT for NTG, and Senior Engineer for Wegmans/Dell/Microsoft/Veritas
And this is cool, but as rare as a one eyed one winged flying purple people eater
Yeah, that was rare that it was three major positions. Lots of candle burning in those days. But that's also what got me the insane leap to Wall St. And then I was able to drop down to just two
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@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
I'm the exception with two FULL TIME W2 jobs, but multiple W2 jobs was common. W2 doesn't imply full time.
I was just applying my policy to your words. Not to every possible scenario that may exist.
@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
But that conflicts with what you said above. I've had multiple W2 jobs for decades. Even when I worked on Wall St I had two full time jobs. Even when I was at the sovereign trust.
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@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
So that makes it even blurrier if you want to know TRUE employers. Yes I had multiple W2s, and yes I was double full time, but also the people for whom I was employed was not the people who provided the W2s, lol. A weird quirk of Wall St. is that often the bank is your true legal employer, but the W2 comes from another firm. We had to know the IRS 20 point employment list well working in that sector because they would often try to play "you don't really work for us" games when you did, in fact, work for the bank. It got super complex.
Yes, this is another scenario, that would warrant a further discussion on my quick and simple explanation about why I don't look at people who are so proud of their "side business". We have MANY PEOs as customers so I am quite well versed in how you can work for one company under the general principles of "employment" while legally being employed by someone else.
The whole concept of a PEO owning your staff and leasing them back to you is strange, but it is happening all over.
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@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
We have MANY PEOs as customers so I am quite well versed in how you can work for one company under the general principles of "employment" while legally being employed by someone else.
Oh no, legally it's all the same. Getting a W2 from company X doesn't imply that they are your employer. The W2 means you have an employer, but the issuer of a W2 isn't necessarily that employer.
But who you work for under general principles and who you work for legally are the same company.
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@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
We have MANY PEOs as customers so I am quite well versed in how you can work for one company under the general principles of "employment" while legally being employed by someone else.
Oh no, legally it's all the same. Getting a W2 from company X doesn't imply that they are your employer. The W2 means you have an employer, but the issuer of a W2 isn't necessarily that employer.
But who you work for under general principles and who you work for legally are the same company.
Perhaps, but I was again making a comment based on your words.
@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
A weird quirk of Wall St. is that often the bank is your true legal employer, but the W2 comes from another firm. We had to know the IRS 20 point employment list well working in that sector because they would often try to play "you don't really work for us" games when you did, in fact, work for the bank. It got super complex.
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@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
We have MANY PEOs as customers so I am quite well versed in how you can work for one company under the general principles of "employment" while legally being employed by someone else.
Oh no, legally it's all the same. Getting a W2 from company X doesn't imply that they are your employer. The W2 means you have an employer, but the issuer of a W2 isn't necessarily that employer.
But who you work for under general principles and who you work for legally are the same company.
Perhaps, but I was again making a comment based on your words.
@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
A weird quirk of Wall St. is that often the bank is your true legal employer, but the W2 comes from another firm. We had to know the IRS 20 point employment list well working in that sector because they would often try to play "you don't really work for us" games when you did, in fact, work for the bank. It got super complex.
Right, but they were playing a game of trying to pretend that they were not the employer, when they were. They try to say that because they don't issue that W2 that they aren't responsible for being the employer. but they direct the work, so they are on the hook.
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@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
if you are applying for a job at my company, and you are currently employed and receive a W2, we do not see that as a "side business", even if it is IT work.
So you just consider it double primary work? Most people assume that you have to have one as "more primary" than the other.
The way you are using the terms. you are just calling side jobs, not side jobs. But a side job is a standard term and is the correct one.
If you had two 40 hr W2 based jobs - then they were both primary. I'd mainly call 1099 work a side job - but many would disagree and say if you had a side gig at say Best Buy (that's w2), that would still be considered side work. I guess, I don't consider side work to be anywhere near regular amounts of work - i.e. a typical schedule 10+/wk, not really a side job, but a full on second job.
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@Dashrender said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
if you are applying for a job at my company, and you are currently employed and receive a W2, we do not see that as a "side business", even if it is IT work.
So you just consider it double primary work? Most people assume that you have to have one as "more primary" than the other.
The way you are using the terms. you are just calling side jobs, not side jobs. But a side job is a standard term and is the correct one.
If you had two 40 hr W2 based jobs - then they were both primary. I'd mainly call 1099 work a side job - but many would disagree and say if you had a side gig at say Best Buy (that's w2), that would still be considered side work. I guess, I don't consider side work to be anywhere near regular amounts of work - i.e. a typical schedule 10+/wk, not really a side job, but a full on second job.
Nothing about a side job implies that it isn't a "full job". But with only the rarest (as in I've never actually heard of it) exception, side jobs are either "outside of your field", "lower career position", or "just a hobby", or "just for the money - e.g. job not career."
Examples....
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Outside of your field...
Main career: engineer
Side job: pilot
Both very real jobs. But most people define a focus for their career and a second career is clearly second.
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Just a hobby...
You are really into driving trains. So as a side job you get certified as a train engineer and drive trains when their regular conductors are sick or just cover off hours or something. I actually know someone doing this.
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Just for the money...
Greeter at Walmart, overnight in a hotel, cashier at a gas station... anything you grab to just earn some extra cash to cover expenses or whatever.
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"Lower Career Position"...
This was me with Dell. My day job / primary was Director level. My side job was senior engineer. Okay, those are both really high, but one is clearly higher. The lower position was the side job because it was both temporary (15 months, though), and was not at the same level as my primary. It was to add money and variety to my "day", and to beef up my resume. It's really clear, in that situation, that even as a full time, on site, W2, senior position, that it wasn't my main job.
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@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
side jobs are either "outside of your field", "lower career position", or "just a hobby", or "just for the money - e.g. job not career."
Assuming this discussion all started in the IT industry, and trying to keep my thoughts applicable to the IT industry, I can say whole heartedly and with great certainty, that around here, most "Side" jobs are absolutely in the same field as the regular job.
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@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
It's really clear, in that situation, that even as a full time, on site, W2, senior position, that it wasn't my main job.
You're different from most.
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@JasGot said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
It's really clear, in that situation, that even as a full time, on site, W2, senior position, that it wasn't my main job.
You're different from most.
Agreed - and while Scott would call those other high end things 'side jobs' I certainly would not have - not before this conversation.
Now a much lower position 'side job' I might call that..
really - in writing this post, the whole use of the term side is just odd. Normally I'd hear 'my second job is, my third job is... in which case I'd expect things like Scott's list definitely made sense.
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Side job, side hustler, moonlighting...
https://www.definitions.net/definition/side+job
A side job, also informally called a side hustle or side gig, is an additional job that a person takes in addition to their primary job in order to supplement their income. Side jobs may be done out of necessity, when one's income from their main job is insufficient to support them, or simply out of a desire to earn more income. Working a side job can also, informally, be called moonlighting, usually when it is performed after normal working hours. A side job can be a full-time job, part-time job, or freelance job, and a person can hold more than one side job. In the modern day, side jobs have been gaining in popularity in America due to stagnating wage growth that has not kept up with the rising cost of living, with nearly a third of those with side jobs requiring them to stay afloat as of 2019. Additionally, nearly half of all Americans report having a side job, including 43 percent of full-time workers. However, the most common reason workers take on side jobs is to obtain additional disposable income. In the United Kingdom, 60 percent of students and graduates reported having a side job, and 43 percent required it to pay their rent.Millennials are the most likely to have a side job, usually in order to have a financial "safety net", leading to them being considered the "side hustle generation". However, they are also common as a means to pay off student loans, as well as to leverage one's creativity in ways that would normally not be feasible in the typical workplace. When a person's primary job only provides income so that they may pursue their preferred side job, it is typically known as a "day job".
For those looking for a deep common definition.
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People refer to it as "the hustle" these days, but mostly because millennials tend to need multiple jobs to make ends meet. Not because they can't earn as much or more than other generations, but because so many of their "primary" jobs tend to be more hobbies, temporary, or part time. Millennials tend to assemble a career out of multiple gigs, rather than a single one like other generations are used to.
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@scottalanmiller said in Do you list your side business on your resume?:
moonlighting
I've been known to moonlight as someone who drinks professionally.
