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    Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved IT Discussion
    encryptionsoftwarelegal
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    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller @Dashrender
      last edited by

      @Dashrender said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

      @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

      So in this case, while not nearly as bad as most, it's actually ransonware, right?

      Wouldn't that apply to any system that prevents you from extracting your data, unless you pay a fee?

      If it does so by maliciously encrypting your data to their benefit, not yours, yes. Generally that's considered illegal. Hence the term "ransomware". It refers to using encryption to make you unable to access your own data so that you have to pay a ransom to get it back.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • scottalanmillerS
        scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        And, like a lot of ransomware, it also means that someone else has access to your data that you do not.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • KellyK
          Kelly
          last edited by

          In the state of Colorado the law is written such that if an encryption key is obtained the data is considered compromised.

          DustinB3403D scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • DustinB3403D
            DustinB3403 @Kelly
            last edited by

            @Kelly said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

            In the state of Colorado the law is written such that if an encryption key is obtained the data is considered compromised.

            Obtained by whom? The customers, the vendors, someone else?

            Does that mean if the rightful customer has the key, that they must consider their system compromised even though they should have the key?

            KellyK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • scottalanmillerS
              scottalanmiller @Kelly
              last edited by

              @Kelly said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

              In the state of Colorado the law is written such that if an encryption key is obtained the data is considered compromised.

              That's the case in most places, I think, but good to know as we have loads of people in CO with this.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • KellyK
                Kelly @DustinB3403
                last edited by

                @DustinB3403 said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                @Kelly said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                In the state of Colorado the law is written such that if an encryption key is obtained the data is considered compromised.

                Obtained by whom? The customers, the vendors, someone else?

                Does that mean if the rightful customer has the key, that they must consider their system compromised even though they should have the key?

                It is a privacy law. If someone who is not authorized has both the data and the key the data is considered to have been exposed and the company is liable under HB11-1828. If the key is public then any access to the data would be considered a breach and exposure.

                DustinB3403D scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • DustinB3403D
                  DustinB3403 @Kelly
                  last edited by

                  @Kelly said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                  not authorized

                  Gotcha, so it's not a poorly written law but only applies in the case of not authorized cases.

                  KellyK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • KellyK
                    Kelly @DustinB3403
                    last edited by

                    @DustinB3403 said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                    @Kelly said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                    not authorized

                    Gotcha, so it's not a poorly written law but only applies in the case of not authorized cases.

                    Well, it will need to fleshed out via case law to determine what unauthorized really means and how you can verify the access or prove non access. The control is ahead of technology implementation in most organizations. We will see how it plays out. It is written in sufficiently broad terms that the access could be from an external access or an internal one.

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                    • scottalanmillerS
                      scottalanmiller @Kelly
                      last edited by

                      @Kelly said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                      @DustinB3403 said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                      @Kelly said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                      In the state of Colorado the law is written such that if an encryption key is obtained the data is considered compromised.

                      Obtained by whom? The customers, the vendors, someone else?

                      Does that mean if the rightful customer has the key, that they must consider their system compromised even though they should have the key?

                      It is a privacy law. If someone who is not authorized has both the data and the key the data is considered to have been exposed and the company is liable under HB11-1828. If the key is public then any access to the data would be considered a breach and exposure.

                      What if it was non-encrypted data, so that there was no key? Wouldn't that be the normal boat, and that's not an exposure.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller
                        last edited by

                        The issue in this case is that the data is not required to be encrypted. But it's sold as a benefit. But it isn't like a HIPAA violation.

                        KellyK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • ObsolesceO
                          Obsolesce @scottalanmiller
                          last edited by

                          @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                          @Obsolesce said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                          False advertisement maybe at best IMO.

                          At best? Isn't giving YOUR keys away to other people fall under hacking laws? It's definitely not legal for them to keep, let alone distribute, your key.

                          Dunno. I'm not a lawyer specializing in privacy and data protection laws. I can only speculate based on general logic. I have no idea about their eula/tos/etc either.

                          DustinB3403D scottalanmillerS 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • KellyK
                            Kelly @scottalanmiller
                            last edited by

                            @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                            The issue in this case is that the data is not required to be encrypted. But it's sold as a benefit. But it isn't like a HIPAA violation.

                            So, the Colorado law and some other state laws (may include CCPA) are mandating that certain PII data be encrypted. HB11-1824 has very few teeth to it at this point until someone gets breached, but I don't want to be the test case for the DA to try it out on.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • DustinB3403D
                              DustinB3403 @Obsolesce
                              last edited by

                              @Obsolesce said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                              @Obsolesce said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                              False advertisement maybe at best IMO.

                              At best? Isn't giving YOUR keys away to other people fall under hacking laws? It's definitely not legal for them to keep, let alone distribute, your key.

                              Dunno. I'm not a lawyer specializing in privacy and data protection laws. I can only speculate based on general logic. I have no idea about their eula/tos/etc either.

                              Most lawyers shouldn't be the expert either. .

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
                                last edited by

                                @Obsolesce said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                @Obsolesce said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                False advertisement maybe at best IMO.

                                At best? Isn't giving YOUR keys away to other people fall under hacking laws? It's definitely not legal for them to keep, let alone distribute, your key.

                                Dunno. I'm not a lawyer specializing in privacy and data protection laws. I can only speculate based on general logic. I have no idea about their eula/tos/etc either.

                                General logic would say that selling someone a key based on a promise to protect them, then selling that same key to someone else to undermine the security that they just sold to you, is not just a civil problem, but a criminal one. Selling access to other peoples' data is highly illegal.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • scottalanmillerS
                                  scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
                                  last edited by

                                  @Obsolesce imagine if you were a lock smith, and you sold someone a lock and key. And you told them about the strength of the key and promoted the lock as being so tough to break into. And then secretly made a kept a copy of that key, and then sold those copies to other people!

                                  If you were a locksmith, everyone would demand you go to jail, of course. Exactly the same here.

                                  ObsolesceO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • ObsolesceO
                                    Obsolesce @scottalanmiller
                                    last edited by

                                    @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                    @Obsolesce imagine if you were a lock smith, and you sold someone a lock and key. And you told them about the strength of the key and promoted the lock as being so tough to break into. And then secretly made a kept a copy of that key, and then sold those copies to other people!

                                    If you were a locksmith, everyone would demand you go to jail, of course. Exactly the same here.

                                    Sure, that sounds illegal to me... but again, I don't know exactly what they are claiming to do, actually doing, selling, tos/eula/etc.

                                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • scottalanmillerS
                                      scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
                                      last edited by

                                      @Obsolesce said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                      @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                      @Obsolesce imagine if you were a lock smith, and you sold someone a lock and key. And you told them about the strength of the key and promoted the lock as being so tough to break into. And then secretly made a kept a copy of that key, and then sold those copies to other people!

                                      If you were a locksmith, everyone would demand you go to jail, of course. Exactly the same here.

                                      Sure, that sounds illegal to me... but again, I don't know exactly what they are claiming to do, actually doing, selling, tos/eula/etc.

                                      They are selling their system as described: they are promoting the customer's data as being encrypted. Then selling that same encryption key to their competitors.

                                      DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • J
                                        JasGot
                                        last edited by

                                        My thoughts.

                                        Legally, the data is encrypted and can be advertised as such. No laws broken.

                                        Now, here is where you can go after the vendor, with a single word: "Negligence."

                                        The vendor will be found profoundly negligent in the way they designed their software.

                                        scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • DustinB3403D
                                          DustinB3403 @scottalanmiller
                                          last edited by

                                          @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                          @Obsolesce said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                          @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                          @Obsolesce imagine if you were a lock smith, and you sold someone a lock and key. And you told them about the strength of the key and promoted the lock as being so tough to break into. And then secretly made a kept a copy of that key, and then sold those copies to other people!

                                          If you were a locksmith, everyone would demand you go to jail, of course. Exactly the same here.

                                          Sure, that sounds illegal to me... but again, I don't know exactly what they are claiming to do, actually doing, selling, tos/eula/etc.

                                          They are selling their system as described: they are promoting the customer's data as being encrypted. Then selling that same encryption key to their competitors.

                                          It's all still encrypted, just with a horribly thought out process for encryption.

                                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • scottalanmillerS
                                            scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
                                            last edited by

                                            @DustinB3403 said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                            @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                            @Obsolesce said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                            @scottalanmiller said in Is It Really Encrypted When the Key Is Public and Automatic?:

                                            @Obsolesce imagine if you were a lock smith, and you sold someone a lock and key. And you told them about the strength of the key and promoted the lock as being so tough to break into. And then secretly made a kept a copy of that key, and then sold those copies to other people!

                                            If you were a locksmith, everyone would demand you go to jail, of course. Exactly the same here.

                                            Sure, that sounds illegal to me... but again, I don't know exactly what they are claiming to do, actually doing, selling, tos/eula/etc.

                                            They are selling their system as described: they are promoting the customer's data as being encrypted. Then selling that same encryption key to their competitors.

                                            It's all still encrypted, just with a horribly thought out process for encryption.

                                            It is, but the key is stored with it. If you weld a key in a lock, it becomes a door knob. That's the scenario here, there is never a time that the data is encrypted without the ability to read it.

                                            DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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