One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client
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@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Another option is robocopying the data off needed to rebuild the server or for a server rebuild. That's basically all a VSSless backup will do anyways, except will more easily copy ALL files instead of just the needed minimal.
Syncing to blob or S3 storage is extremely easy as well. Not to mention cheap.
I'd agree, until I seen 8TB of capacity heading there. Assuming they have a "normal" internet pipe, that's going to take a really really long time to back up and restore that much data over the internet.
Yeah, I'm so used to it being fast as hell from aws instance
Well, if he backs the data up to S3, and rebuilds the server in AWS.... no restore time
It sounds like a good plan since they are over provisioned already.
The over provisioning is being fixed once a backup is made.
How so if they need to restore?
That's for scott to explain, the point is the problem is the over provisioning of said host. I assume by slimming down a few of the VMs
Overprovisioning of ESXi in setup, not of the hardware.
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@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Another option is robocopying the data off needed to rebuild the server or for a server rebuild. That's basically all a VSSless backup will do anyways, except will more easily copy ALL files instead of just the needed minimal.
Syncing to blob or S3 storage is extremely easy as well. Not to mention cheap.
I'd agree, until I seen 8TB of capacity heading there. Assuming they have a "normal" internet pipe, that's going to take a really really long time to back up and restore that much data over the internet.
Yeah, I'm so used to it being fast as hell from aws instance
Well, if he backs the data up to S3, and rebuilds the server in AWS.... no restore time
Then the app wouldn't work fast enough when we were done. Also, it's a DC. Which can work remotely but...
If they use off-prem email, i can't imagine how a vet clinic would be crippled by using an app hosted in AWS. Is this app on their PCs doing a ton of IO and need crazy low latency or something?
You've never used a classic client / server app where every call has to go over the Internet? Nothing like email. Even going from GigE to 100Mb/s Ethernet is enough to make the app noticeably problematic. Adding even 1ms of latency would make it almost impossible to use.
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@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Another option is robocopying the data off needed to rebuild the server or for a server rebuild. That's basically all a VSSless backup will do anyways, except will more easily copy ALL files instead of just the needed minimal.
Syncing to blob or S3 storage is extremely easy as well. Not to mention cheap.
I'd agree, until I seen 8TB of capacity heading there. Assuming they have a "normal" internet pipe, that's going to take a really really long time to back up and restore that much data over the internet.
Yeah, I'm so used to it being fast as hell from aws instance
Well, if he backs the data up to S3, and rebuilds the server in AWS.... no restore time
As long as he uses the same region for s3 and instance it will be very fast
Is there an AWS region for Saskatchewan?
Oregon or Montreal. I would guess Oregon is closer
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@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Another option is robocopying the data off needed to rebuild the server or for a server rebuild. That's basically all a VSSless backup will do anyways, except will more easily copy ALL files instead of just the needed minimal.
Syncing to blob or S3 storage is extremely easy as well. Not to mention cheap.
I'd agree, until I seen 8TB of capacity heading there. Assuming they have a "normal" internet pipe, that's going to take a really really long time to back up and restore that much data over the internet.
Yeah, I'm so used to it being fast as hell from aws instance
Well, if he backs the data up to S3, and rebuilds the server in AWS.... no restore time
Then the app wouldn't work fast enough when we were done. Also, it's a DC. Which can work remotely but...
If they use off-prem email, i can't imagine how a vet clinic would be crippled by using an app hosted in AWS. Is this app on their PCs doing a ton of IO and need crazy low latency or something?
You've never used a classic client / server app where every call has to go over the Internet? Nothing like email. Even going from GigE to 100Mb/s Ethernet is enough to make the app noticeably problematic. Adding even 1ms of latency would make it almost impossible to use.
This, so much this.
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@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Another option is robocopying the data off needed to rebuild the server or for a server rebuild. That's basically all a VSSless backup will do anyways, except will more easily copy ALL files instead of just the needed minimal.
Syncing to blob or S3 storage is extremely easy as well. Not to mention cheap.
I'd agree, until I seen 8TB of capacity heading there. Assuming they have a "normal" internet pipe, that's going to take a really really long time to back up and restore that much data over the internet.
Yeah, I'm so used to it being fast as hell from aws instance
Well, if he backs the data up to S3, and rebuilds the server in AWS.... no restore time
It sounds like a good plan since they are over provisioned already.
The over provisioning is being fixed once a backup is made.
How so if they need to restore?
Don't need to restore all the same stuff. Their former setup was three VMs, two of them just to sell unneeded software and services. Once we rebuild, the drives will be set up correctly and only one VM restored. The entire rebuild is to fix the train wreck of a system.
So are you only backing up the data and the OS doesn't matter or are you wanting to be able to restore the entire guest?
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@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Is this app on their PCs doing a ton of IO and need crazy low latency or something?
Yes, client / server means all IO is going over the network. It's the most inefficient possible app design. Imagine using QuickBooks with your app on your desktop, but the database FILE over SMB hosted by AWS across the country. It would be so slow that you'd forget what you typed in by the time that it actually stored the data and displayed it again.
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@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Another option is robocopying the data off needed to rebuild the server or for a server rebuild. That's basically all a VSSless backup will do anyways, except will more easily copy ALL files instead of just the needed minimal.
Syncing to blob or S3 storage is extremely easy as well. Not to mention cheap.
I'd agree, until I seen 8TB of capacity heading there. Assuming they have a "normal" internet pipe, that's going to take a really really long time to back up and restore that much data over the internet.
Yeah, I'm so used to it being fast as hell from aws instance
Well, if he backs the data up to S3, and rebuilds the server in AWS.... no restore time
It sounds like a good plan since they are over provisioned already.
The over provisioning is being fixed once a backup is made.
How so if they need to restore?
Don't need to restore all the same stuff. Their former setup was three VMs, two of them just to sell unneeded software and services. Once we rebuild, the drives will be set up correctly and only one VM restored. The entire rebuild is to fix the train wreck of a system.
So are you only backing up the data and the OS doesn't matter or are you wanting to be able to restore the entire guest?
No good way to get the OS. Going to have to take our chances there. But the OS we have an install DVD for, so not the end of the world if it is lost.
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@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Another option is robocopying the data off needed to rebuild the server or for a server rebuild. That's basically all a VSSless backup will do anyways, except will more easily copy ALL files instead of just the needed minimal.
Syncing to blob or S3 storage is extremely easy as well. Not to mention cheap.
I'd agree, until I seen 8TB of capacity heading there. Assuming they have a "normal" internet pipe, that's going to take a really really long time to back up and restore that much data over the internet.
Yeah, I'm so used to it being fast as hell from aws instance
Well, if he backs the data up to S3, and rebuilds the server in AWS.... no restore time
As long as he uses the same region for s3 and instance it will be very fast
Is there an AWS region for Saskatchewan?
Oregon or Montreal. I would guess Oregon is closer
Physically for sure, but as the wire runs, maybe not. No Toronto? That seems odd.
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@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@IRJ said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Another option is robocopying the data off needed to rebuild the server or for a server rebuild. That's basically all a VSSless backup will do anyways, except will more easily copy ALL files instead of just the needed minimal.
Syncing to blob or S3 storage is extremely easy as well. Not to mention cheap.
I'd agree, until I seen 8TB of capacity heading there. Assuming they have a "normal" internet pipe, that's going to take a really really long time to back up and restore that much data over the internet.
Yeah, I'm so used to it being fast as hell from aws instance
Well, if he backs the data up to S3, and rebuilds the server in AWS.... no restore time
It sounds like a good plan since they are over provisioned already.
The over provisioning is being fixed once a backup is made.
How so if they need to restore?
Don't need to restore all the same stuff. Their former setup was three VMs, two of them just to sell unneeded software and services. Once we rebuild, the drives will be set up correctly and only one VM restored. The entire rebuild is to fix the train wreck of a system.
So are you only backing up the data and the OS doesn't matter or are you wanting to be able to restore the entire guest?
No good way to get the OS. Going to have to take our chances there. But the OS we have an install DVD for, so not the end of the world if it is lost.
Then I'd use rclone, they have a simple executable that can backup to anything you can throw at it. You can even use the guest as it's own server to point to B2, AWS, Google, a local drive or literally dozens of other cloud storage providers.
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This is what the rclone process looks like on windows
rclone.exe copy C:\ b2:\bucket-nameb2 could be a local USB drive as well, just need to add it using
rclone config -
@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Is this app on their PCs doing a ton of IO and need crazy low latency or something?
Yes, client / server means all IO is going over the network. It's the most inefficient possible app design. Imagine using QuickBooks with your app on your desktop, but the database FILE over SMB hosted by AWS across the country. It would be so slow that you'd forget what you typed in by the time that it actually stored the data and displayed it again.
Blah, looks like you're stuck then
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@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
If they use off-prem email
Off prem email, like I use, tends to use one of these....
- Web interface
- IMAP
- ActiveSync
All three of those are designed specifically to work the opposite of client/server so that they can work over the Internet. Email is as polar opposite to on prem client/server as applications can get. Email was originally designed for response latency measured in days (literally) not nanoseconds. So SMTP can withstand days of being disconnected and still work just fine. And email apps show a consistent interface so that you can keep working even when the delay is seconds (or days.)
Email works over dial up. Or even slower. And while you can theoretically measure the performance difference, it doesn't hit the end user. Waiting one second, or one hour for an email response isn't something that a user will notice because they don't know when the email is coming. But a database call not being instant, when you need to make one after another to construct a form or fill out a report can make it literally impossible to use an app because you might not be able to complete a transaction while the customer is there, or fill in data for the system while doing the task, or just remember when you were doing by the time it loads.
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@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
If they use off-prem email
Off prem email, like I use, tends to use one of these....
- Web interface
- IMAP
- ActiveSync
All three of those are designed specifically to work the opposite of client/server so that they can work over the Internet. Email is as polar opposite to on prem client/server as applications can get. Email was originally designed for response latency measured in days (literally) not nanoseconds. So SMTP can withstand days of being disconnected and still work just fine. And email apps show a consistent interface so that you can keep working even when the delay is seconds (or days.)
Email works over dial up. Or even slower. And while you can theoretically measure the performance difference, it doesn't hit the end user. Waiting one second, or one hour for an email response isn't something that a user will notice because they don't know when the email is coming. But a database call not being instant, when you need to make one after another to construct a form or fill out a report can make it literally impossible to use an app because you might not be able to complete a transaction while the customer is there, or fill in data for the system while doing the task, or just remember when you were doing by the time it loads.
Yeah I got it, I wan't clear on the app. But I am now.
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@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@Obsolesce said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
Is this app on their PCs doing a ton of IO and need crazy low latency or something?
Yes, client / server means all IO is going over the network. It's the most inefficient possible app design. Imagine using QuickBooks with your app on your desktop, but the database FILE over SMB hosted by AWS across the country. It would be so slow that you'd forget what you typed in by the time that it actually stored the data and displayed it again.
Blah, looks like you're stuck then
Pretty much. It's not that bad, just need a good backup before we do the straight copy that we will do the V2V from. We have enough space there now to do the backup (twice if needed, maybe more) and gobs of space on its way there (8TB additional for working space during the transition... total backup is just 400GB.)
So this is just the fail safe backup. We will have a full copy of the offlined disk image before we do anything destructive as well. The hope is that we simply rebuild the host and V2V back to Hyper-V and all will be well.
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@scottalanmiller Is this the same client that is licensed for Server 2016, so you're installing Hyper-V 2016 rather than 2019?
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@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller Is this the same client that is licensed for Server 2016, so you're installing Hyper-V 2016 rather than 2019?
Yes. But they found the DVD, and the licensing. So that part is good.
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@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller Is this the same client that is licensed for Server 2016, so you're installing Hyper-V 2016 rather than 2019?
Yes. But they found the DVD, and the licensing. So that part is good.
So to ask, why do they require a desktop on their hypervisor? You probably answered this on that other topic but I didn't see it.
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@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@DustinB3403 said in One Time, Non-Image, Windows Backup Client:
@scottalanmiller Is this the same client that is licensed for Server 2016, so you're installing Hyper-V 2016 rather than 2019?
Yes. But they found the DVD, and the licensing. So that part is good.
So to ask, why do they require a desktop on their hypervisor? You probably answered this on that other topic but I didn't see it.
MSP's toolset. It requires Windows GUI to work (rolls eyes.)
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Duplicati is about halfway through the backup at this point.
