How M$ shakedown stupid corporations



  • @scottalanmiller said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @Dashrender said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    Please provide an example of this pride you're talking about? Like a specific prideful sentence about those specifics you mentioned.

    Things like "If the bill isn't at least $50k, we won't consider the solution."

    Who actually says this though? Who would specifically mandate spending way more money than required?

    I get the stance of "If we aren't paying for it, then it can't be a viable solution" I deal with that conversation regularly about open source.



  • @DustinB3403 said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    Who actually says this though? Who would specifically mandate spending way more money than required?

    Believe it or not... MOST companies. The average company makes decisions like this. From little main street hobbies to the Fortune 100. They do it because they are lazy, because they want to look good to their friends, because they are foolish, because someone is sabotaging the business, because someone is getting a kick back, or because someone's buddy is the sales guy. It's everywhere.



  • @DustinB3403 said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    I get the stance of "If we aren't paying for it, then it can't be a viable solution" I deal with that conversation regularly about open source.

    Ever heard of a "bid process" like governments always require? That's a codified version of this. Actually putting it on paper.



  • @scottalanmiller said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @DustinB3403 said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    I get the stance of "If we aren't paying for it, then it can't be a viable solution" I deal with that conversation regularly about open source.

    Ever heard of a "bid process" like governments always require? That's a codified version of this. Actually putting it on paper.

    You've mentioned that the bid process is bad in the past - though I'm not sure how it relates to Dustin's comment?


  • Vendor

    @Obsolesce said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    It runs on a highly-customized extremely hardened and stripped-down version of Hyper-V basically, but that is where all similarities end. The management layer on top of that is ARM.

    ARM isn't a management layer, it's a processor architecture. They might use an ARM processor for an out of band controller (I suspect that is what most out of band controllers run with the exception of whatever the hell is the custom silicon used for AWS Nitro).


  • Vendor

    @Emad-R said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    You have not seen much of "real business" then, I cannot disclose info, but I think this corp is like multi-million revenue.

    Multi-million in revenue? That's cute. I worked for a crappy 50 man call center and we could do that.

    Mainstream Support End Date was 10/9/2018 for Server 2012. It's in extended support (security patches only, no bug fixes). Complaining about a feature improvement (ultra precise timing which is needed for distributed clustered systems that didn't exist in 2012) is a REALLY odd thing to complain about.

    Generally I don't side with calling anyone's business a hobby, but I don't particularly consider 1 billion in revenue to be really that impressive (outside of maybe the software industry where margins are higher). If your company is that small, and can't read when end of general support is, I would correctly argue they are a small business and not a serious enterprise by anyone's definition.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search?alpha=windows server 2012


  • Vendor

    @Pete-S said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    BTW, already back in the Windows 3.1 days you had something called Tardis that you would run for NTP sync. Windows own time service was only designed to keep time reasonably synced for kerberos and stuff like that. I think it appears first in Windows 2000 Server.

    I ran Tardis and K9 (The client and server)! worked shockingly well.


  • Vendor

    @Emad-R said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    Dude you neglect alot of company that uses network isolation as security, and DMZ and LAN based security. They invest and policies and change controls forms instead of upgrading

    Network isolation (at a logical level rather than physical) is very much a part of defense in depth. I'm not going to run an iSCSI network that's hosting VMFS volumes on a subnet that you can route to from the guest WIFI.

    Micro-segmentation (which is policy driven, but automated) is really just layer 4 filtering brought all the way to the edge (through VTEP bridges, VxLAN or GENEVE overlays, a managed Virtual Distributed Switch etc).

    Just because you update doesn't mean that you abandon these technologies, you just adapt them. I'd argue a "DMZ" network that has multiple edge services on the same subnet is a bit dated (and a stupid idea) but don't knock on network segmentation. Not everything will support TLS through a reverse proxy with IDS inspection.... (My beautiful SCSI and NVMe packets!)


  • Vendor

    @scottalanmiller said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    He may be correct. I've talked to companies while living in Italy and it was common to take great pride is overspending, losing money, not having good Internet, etc. It's a massive problem there that is at the very core of why their economy is struggling. They don't look at business as business like we do here or in the UK or Germany. Culturally business is always seen as a hobby, always about emotions and pride, not about profits.

    It's kinda a vicious circle. Company gets behind on spending and run 10 year old out of support crap. Good people leave, and the only skills left in who remains is how to maintain old crap (so they are proud of it, and kinda get a Stockholm syndrome with it)

    Expecting free product updates for life is... an interesting opinion...



  • @StorageNinja said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @Obsolesce said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    It runs on a highly-customized extremely hardened and stripped-down version of Hyper-V basically, but that is where all similarities end. The management layer on top of that is ARM.

    ARM isn't a management layer, it's a processor architecture. They might use an ARM processor for an out of band controller (I suspect that is what most out of band controllers run with the exception of whatever the hell is the custom silicon used for AWS Nitro).

    Wth, I'm not talking about the processor architecture. I was referring to Azure Resource Manager. The proper context was there, no reason at all to think I was referring to processor architecture.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-resource-manager/resource-group-overview



  • @Obsolesce said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    Arch.

    Did you say Arch?

    Wrought-Iron-Parisian-Arch.jpg



  • @DustinB3403 said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @Obsolesce said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    Arch.

    Did you say Arch?

    Wrought-Iron-Parisian-Archm.jpg

    ...technically... but is not what I meant. Fixed.


  • Vendor

    @Obsolesce said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    Azure Resource Manager

    Oddly enough I can't find any azure documents that abbreviate it (They always use the full product name for this reason).

    Still back to the origional post. Is OP Seriously expecting new features on his 10 year old car?



  • @StorageNinja said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @Obsolesce said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    Azure Resource Manager

    Oddly enough I can't find any azure documents that abbreviate it (They always use the full product name for this reason).

    Still back to the origional post. Is OP Seriously expecting new features on his 10 year old car?

    I see it referenced as ARM all the time, but my first thought always goes to processors



  • @Dashrender said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @matteo-nunziati said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @Obsolesce said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @Emad-R said in How M$ shakedown stupid corporations:

    @Dashrender

    You have not seen much of "real business" then, I cannot disclose info, but I think this corp is like multi-million revenue.

    Thats how it is ins real world, they get bloated and move slower, thats what happen when corp grow, if you keep it startup-ish vibe and "move fast and break things" you will be running the latest but not everyone is like that.

    Besides windows painfull upgrading process helps you to stick to whats running.

    And no on the client side, its all Win10 ... sadly we use Win10 to manage Linux machines 😞
    I hate that mremote/putty shit

    This is false.

    Big business makes quite an effort to stay current in the Windows world, especially if they are multi-billion $$ company. They HAVE to. It's not a choice.

    It's constant change going on, all the time. 2019 is current, when a server is needed at all. Most are really going serverless when possible, lots of SaaS, Cloud, etc.

    You might be thinking of U.S. defense companies. I mean they run old shit and pay millions and billions to maintain OAF software support.

    I have to disagree: I've recently started a job as a GE/BH oil and gas consultant and they proudly stick on win 7...
    They also stick with old unpatched software of all kinds... Maybe it is their italian BU only... But it is rather embarassing...

    Proudly? What is there to be proud about running 10+ year old software? What are the chances that they are still running on the hardware from back then? Granted you fairly easily still get OEM machines with Windows 7 Pro will into 2016, if not even early 2017 - but still... The writing was on the wall.

    Even with the number of hacks that happen every day, clearly enough hasn't happened to people/companies to make the rest stand up and take notice that running old software on machines that connect to the internet - and really, how much doesn't these days - to update their equipment. Unfortunately, this might be one of the first things for business where they can't use it until it dies (I'm talking about IT based technology here) - and I think that is the hard point. Of course businesses that are doing well, and understand efficiencies have been upgrading as the tech makes sense to, well before things like EOL software/hardware come into play, but then many other businesses that run on a shoe string just don't.

    Sorry for the late replay. Really busy days...
    They are specifically pay extra money to MS to have extra support for win7.
    The "proudly" is part was mostly a joke. Reality is that big corps in Italy have very unaware decision makes.

    They stick with really unprepared supplieres/staff which fill companies with tons of useless gear and SW which easily became unmanageable and a migration nigthmare. so that they easily reach a tech debt in few years (use a phisical token to auth in a vpn used to access the private github repo. Which runs over https...).
    On the other side they simply check the bill to be sure it stays well under a predefined threshold simply wasting that money.

    My last effort is to maintain a ui written by the wrong guy in the wrong language and used to keep alive a software whose user manual has been published in 1988!

    And this is the second big corp I've knowleged of. The other one buyed the company I worked in. I've friends there and the logic is the same...

    We say that their IT depts are salary factories: they leverage the ignorance of decison makers to auto feed them selves and be sure to increase the amount of men hours required to housekeep the whole infra...


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