What would you do...
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
If you don't mind me asking, how much was the proposal for?
About 15K of work, no hardware.
And do you do consultation for anyone else?
Yes, a mix of work per hour and solutions for a fixed price. Sometimes with hardware involved.
So why is this any different? You're paid to consult, so get a signed consultation contract and make some money.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
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Paging @JaredBusch and @scottalanmiller
What would you two do, would you consult the competition or fire the customer?
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@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
I haven't been in the MSP/break-fix side of things for 8 years now but if I had to assist a competitor on getting their shit in order to finish the job I would have to say: YOU'RE FIRED!
You had my proposal, you chose another vendor, your problem.
This is consulting, not MSP. totally different things.
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@DustinB3403 @bnrstnr @WLS-ITGuy
Guys, you all have good points.The problem with consulting is that you in the eyes of the customer might become responsible that everything works.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 @bnrstnr @WLS-ITGuy
Guys, you all have good points.The problem with consulting is that you in the eyes of the customer might become responsible that everything works.
Never. Things do not become. Things are spelled out in a contract.
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@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
I'd say billed on the 5s
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
I'd say billed on the 5s
Stop being a jackass just because a client picked someone other than you.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 @bnrstnr @WLS-ITGuy
Guys, you all have good points.The problem with consulting is that you in the eyes of the customer might become responsible that everything works.
Yeah. . . that is a part of what consulting is. . .
How do I do X?
By performing XYZ in that order.
It didn't work when I did XYZ in that order.
OKAY, time to find out why. . .
Edit: of which for all of the time that you're spending on figuring out XYZ are you billing the customer. So you're paid to do it.
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@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
I'd say billed on the 5s
Stop being a jackass just because a client picked someone other than you.
If it were my company I wouldn't take the client after this so I can be however the fuck I want to be.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
A customer ask you for a solution to a problem. You have knowledge about the customers systems because they are a repeat customer. You present a solution and give them a quote.
As you stated this was sales engineering time the you never get paid for directly. I assume that you build recovery of this cost into your quoted rate.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
I'd say billed on the 5s
Stop being a jackass just because a client picked someone other than you.
If it were my company I wouldn't take the client after this so I can be however the fuck I want to be.
:crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face:
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
The customer decide to go with another company instead.
Right, common thing all the time. Sometimes you are the "another company" sometimes you are not.
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@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
I'd say billed on the 5s
Stop being a jackass just because a client picked someone other than you.
If it were my company I wouldn't take the client after this so I can be however the fuck I want to be.
:crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face:
This is also the reason I got out of MSP/break fix and work in house now. I don't have to deal with this at all.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
I'd say billed on the 5s
Stop being a jackass just because a client picked someone other than you.
If it were my company I wouldn't take the client after this so I can be however the fuck I want to be.
Cool, so we know your stance, you're telling the customer they are fired. Stop responding unless your going to offer useful information.
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@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
A customer ask you for a solution to a problem. You have knowledge about the customers systems because they are a repeat customer. You present a solution and give them a quote.
As you stated this was sales engineering time the you never get paid for directly. I assume that you build recovery of this cost into your quoted rate.
That is correct.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
After some time the customer comes back and ask if you can offer some pointers to get the guys from the other company going forward with the implementation.
This is something I have done from time to time. But it is always at our normal full hourly rate. No discounts. Our standard consulting agreement has a rider attached clearly stating the goals of the consultation time. That everything we are doing is education and hand off. No follow up responsibility on us without further billable hours.
Consulting, is consulting. People like @WLS-ITGuy that just want to cry about shit do not understand business in the first place.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
I'd say billed on the 5s
Stop being a jackass just because a client picked someone other than you.
If it were my company I wouldn't take the client after this so I can be however the fuck I want to be.
:crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face:
This is also the reason I got out of MSP/break fix and work in house now. I don't have to deal with this at all.
FFS. You were already told that you have no clue WTF you are talking about.
Consulting is not MSP.
Additionally, this thread has jack shit to do with break/fix.
