Email server options



  • @JaredBusch You said that they are currently using Outlook. Will they continue to use Outlook if you stick with Exchange or go to Office 365?



  • @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch You said that they are currently using Outlook. Will they continue to use Outlook if you stick with Exchange or go to Office 365?

    Outlook works with every single option listed above. It has nothing to do with the choice of email server.



  • @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    We had slightly fewer mailboxes. I did a 6-year projection for just the software licensing costs of Exchange 2016 vs Office 365 Business Premium and since we already used proplus, the self-hosted Exchange was far more costly. Obviously, if you aren't already using an Office365 plan in some regards, the comparison is going to be closer.

    You mixed licensing the desktop clients with the server licensing. those are separate and distinct needs.



  • Keep MailCow in the list for self hosted along with Zimbra, too.



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    We had slightly fewer mailboxes. I did a 6-year projection for just the software licensing costs of Exchange 2016 vs Office 365 Business Premium and since we already used proplus, the self-hosted Exchange was far more costly. Obviously, if you aren't already using an Office365 plan in some regards, the comparison is going to be closer.

    You mixed licensing the desktop clients with the server licensing. those are separate and distinct needs.

    Agreed. However, when discussing Office 365, they are usually intertwined.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Email server options:

    Keep MailCow in the list for self hosted along with Zimbra, too.

    Added. Now i need information about it.



  • @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    We had slightly fewer mailboxes. I did a 6-year projection for just the software licensing costs of Exchange 2016 vs Office 365 Business Premium and since we already used proplus, the self-hosted Exchange was far more costly. Obviously, if you aren't already using an Office365 plan in some regards, the comparison is going to be closer.

    You mixed licensing the desktop clients with the server licensing. those are separate and distinct needs.

    Agreed. However, when discussing Office 365, they are usually intertwined.

    Never.



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    We had slightly fewer mailboxes. I did a 6-year projection for just the software licensing costs of Exchange 2016 vs Office 365 Business Premium and since we already used proplus, the self-hosted Exchange was far more costly. Obviously, if you aren't already using an Office365 plan in some regards, the comparison is going to be closer.

    You mixed licensing the desktop clients with the server licensing. those are separate and distinct needs.

    Agreed. However, when discussing Office 365, they are usually intertwined.

    Never.

    OK. Please explain how they don't offer licensing packages/tiers with both, Exchange online and the client software.



  • @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    We had slightly fewer mailboxes. I did a 6-year projection for just the software licensing costs of Exchange 2016 vs Office 365 Business Premium and since we already used proplus, the self-hosted Exchange was far more costly. Obviously, if you aren't already using an Office365 plan in some regards, the comparison is going to be closer.

    You mixed licensing the desktop clients with the server licensing. those are separate and distinct needs.

    Agreed. However, when discussing Office 365, they are usually intertwined.

    Never.

    OK. Please explain how they don't offer licensing packages/tiers with both, Exchange online and the client software.

    I never said they did not. You keep injecting shit here.



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    We had slightly fewer mailboxes. I did a 6-year projection for just the software licensing costs of Exchange 2016 vs Office 365 Business Premium and since we already used proplus, the self-hosted Exchange was far more costly. Obviously, if you aren't already using an Office365 plan in some regards, the comparison is going to be closer.

    You mixed licensing the desktop clients with the server licensing. those are separate and distinct needs.

    Agreed. However, when discussing Office 365, they are usually intertwined.

    Never.

    OK. Please explain how they don't offer licensing packages/tiers with both, Exchange online and the client software.

    I never said they did not. You keep injecting shit here.

    OK. Good luck.



  • @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @wrx7m said in Email server options:

    We had slightly fewer mailboxes. I did a 6-year projection for just the software licensing costs of Exchange 2016 vs Office 365 Business Premium and since we already used proplus, the self-hosted Exchange was far more costly. Obviously, if you aren't already using an Office365 plan in some regards, the comparison is going to be closer.

    You mixed licensing the desktop clients with the server licensing. those are separate and distinct needs.

    Agreed. However, when discussing Office 365, they are usually intertwined.

    Never.

    OK. Please explain how they don't offer licensing packages/tiers with both, Exchange online and the client software.

    I never said they did not. You keep injecting shit here.

    OK. Good luck.

    i very clearly specified Exchange Online Plan 1. Nothing else.
    Office365 has many licenses that include many things. I never denied that.
    But I stated, you never mix desktop application decisions with email server decisions.

    Do they potentially work together? sometimes. But when I also specified Outlook, not Office, that matters.



  • I'd stick with the Exchange based back end.

    As far as migrating goes, there's plenty of third party products out there, or, if there's not a lot of users then a simple export to PST and import on the new setup would work.



  • Costs updated in OP for Options A-C.

    Re: Option C & D : What about spam filtering? Currently the client has $1 /user/month from Google for their on site Exchange 2010. That adds $1,440/year.

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    Option A : O365 Exchange Online plan 1 $4/user/month - $5,760 per year
    Option B : ZoHo $1-$6 /user/month - $1,440 - $8,640 / year
    Option C : Self hosted Exchange 2019 - $17,000 in licensing (120 Exchange User CALS is the largest chunk)
    Option D : Self hosted Zimbra/Mailcow - only setup time (needs calculated)



  • $17,000 (Exchange on premises) + $5,760(SPAM filter for 4 years) / $5,760 (O365 EO Plan 1) = 3.95 aka 4 years break even



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    $17,000 (Exchange on premises) + $5,760(SPAM filter for 4 years) / $5,760 (O365 EO Plan 1) = 3.95 aka 4 years break even

    Sorry, missed the line about 120 users. :S

    One option for the on-premises portion would be to SPLA the server and Exchange licensing. That would break it down to a more palatable monthly cost.



  • @PhlipElder said in Email server options:

    SPLA

    I don't resell.



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    Self hosted is obviously a downside to email for a SMB.

    We are not in the business of hosting email. I am not adding that liability to our company.

    If the client wants self hosted, it exists on their premises or colo or wtf-ever, and we make sure backups etc.

    If I understand this comment correctly, you have no intention of maintaining this system outside of backups etc, therefore they have someone already who is skilled enough to do so? Also, will they require hardware upgrades if they choose any on-premises option that will add to the project costs?

    We're of similar size and although I've never had to run an on-prem Exchange server, I'm glad I don't. I'd rather spend my time worrying about other issues. The Exchange Online plan is hard to beat in my opinion.



  • @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    Also, will they require hardware upgrades if they choose any on-premises option that will add to the project costs?

    No. Their current on site hardware can handle it. That hardware will likely see an upgrade in 2020 or 2021.

    @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    you have no intention of maintaining this system outside of backups etc, therefore they have someone already who is skilled enough to do so?

    No, we are their outsourced IT department, we will handle it. But when planning, I never plan for us to continue to do so. I obviously hope they continue to have us do so, but I never plan on it.

    @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    The Exchange Online plan is hard to beat in my opinion.

    That has long been my opinion. But this was originally installed in February of 2012. O365 pricing then was not as good.



  • @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    We're of similar size and although I've never had to run an on-prem Exchange server, I'm glad I don't. I'd rather spend my time worrying about other issues. The Exchange Online plan is hard to beat in my opinion.

    We run in house email on Zimbra for smaller than that and without the costs and overhead of Exchange, running in house is really not bad. We manage O365 for customers and while O365 is slightly less work on a per user basis, it's not much. O365 is just cumbersome enough to be close to the effort of the system maintenance of something like Zimbra. But when you consider the monthly cost savings, it's been great for us.



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    I will be getting mailbox sizes later.

    15 mailboxes close to 10GB.

    Total size 335GB used.
    Average size is 2.3GB

    This means ZoHo is potentially a decent option. The add on storage is shared, I know that.

    But if the initial 5GB is also shared, then that means at 120 users, there is 600GB of mail storage available. Significantly under my needs.



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    No. Their current on site hardware can handle it. That hardware will likely see an upgrade in 2020 or 20

    Email is often light enough to fit into nooks and crannies pretty easily. If you run it on cloud, you pay for it. If you have on premises hardware, often you have enough spare to just stick it there.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Email server options:

    We run in house email on Zimbra

    How is spam filtering handled?



  • @scottalanmiller said in Email server options:

    @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    We're of similar size and although I've never had to run an on-prem Exchange server, I'm glad I don't. I'd rather spend my time worrying about other issues. The Exchange Online plan is hard to beat in my opinion.

    We run in house email on Zimbra for smaller than that and without the costs and overhead of Exchange, running in house is really not bad. We manage O365 for customers and while O365 is slightly less work on a per user basis, it's not much. O365 is just cumbersome enough to be close to the effort of the system maintenance of something like Zimbra. But when you consider the monthly cost savings, it's been great for us.

    In our situation, I'm the only guy here and it would take me some amount of time to learn Zimbra/Mailcow and then deploy it. Then if in 2 years I left, I'm leaving that to someone else to learn. Just doesn't seem smart for us. I would like however to deploy it in a lab just to play with and learn.



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    Also, will they require hardware upgrades if they choose any on-premises option that will add to the project costs?

    No. Their current on site hardware can handle it. That hardware will likely see an upgrade in 2020 or 2021.

    Even being a year or two down the road, that's extra hardware you know you wouldn't otherwise need if hosted therefore a portion of the hardware upgrade costs should be allocated today in my opinion.

    @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    you have no intention of maintaining this system outside of backups etc, therefore they have someone already who is skilled enough to do so?

    No, we are their outsourced IT department, we will handle it. But when planning, I never plan for us to continue to do so. I obviously hope they continue to have us do so, but I never plan on it.

    I think here it's in the best interest of the company then to have some form of hosted solution that's easier to have someone else step into and manage in a scenario where your relationship ended. If I were a key decision maker at the company, no matter how much I liked you and we'd been in business together, that's a risk factor I'd have to consider.

    Just curious, if Zoho + spam/malware filtering seemed to check all the boxes at $3/user/mo, would you immediately go Zoho vs EOP1 simply based on cost? Is cost the ultimate factor?



  • @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    I think here it's in the best interest of the company then to have some form of hosted solution that's easier to have someone else step into and manage in a scenario where your relationship ended. If I were a key decision maker at the company, no matter how much I liked you and we'd been in business together, that's a risk factor I'd have to consider.

    That is the point of having the 4 options above...



  • @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    Just curious, if Zoho + spam/malware filtering seemed to check all the boxes at $3/user/mo, would you immediately go Zoho vs EOP1 simply based on cost? Is cost the ultimate factor?

    Except it doens't check all the boxes. It is Workspaces, not just email. That is an entire collection of shit the client does not want or need.

    Also $3/user is more than $1/user + 200 GB Storage (150/year / 120 users = 1.25) = $2.25/user



  • @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    Zoho + spam/malware filtering

    ZoHo includes spam filtering.



  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    @zachary715 said in Email server options:

    Just curious, if Zoho + spam/malware filtering seemed to check all the boxes at $3/user/mo, would you immediately go Zoho vs EOP1 simply based on cost? Is cost the ultimate factor?

    Except it doens't check all the boxes. It is Workspaces, not just email. That is an entire collection of shit the client does not want or need.

    Also $3/user is more than $1/user + 200 GB Storage (150/year / 120 users = 1.25) = $2.25/user

    Ok I didn't know Zoho included spam filtering. I thought you were asking for that earlier but you were actually referring to the Open Source options. My bad.

    I wasn't referencing the Worskpaces option, I was assuming $1 Zoho plus $1-2 spam/malware filtering per user.



  • I managed to find the PDF of the original Exchange 2010 order form Jan 3, 2012.
    $6,344 for Exchange 2010, 70 CALs, & 2 licenses of Server 2008 R2 (one for something else).

    Adjusting the 2010 order to 120 users (was purchased over time as they grew) it is definitely more expensive now.
    These numbers also happen to be from the same VAR.

    Item Quantity 2010 Unit Cost 2010 Total 2019 Unit Cost 2019 Total Difference
    Exchange Server Standard 1 $655.00 $655.00 $732.00 $732.00 $77.00
    Exchange User CAL 120 $62.00 $7,440.00 $91.15 $10,938.00 $3,498.00
    Windows Server Standard 1 $672.00 $672.00 $913.57 $913.57 $241.57
    Windows Server User CAL 120 $35.00 $4,200.00 $39.41 $4,729.20 $529.20
    $12,967.00 $17,312.77 $4,345.77


  • @JaredBusch said in Email server options:

    I managed to find the PDF of the original Exchange 2010 order form Jan 3, 2012.
    $6,344 for Exchange 2010, 70 CALs, & 2 licenses of Server 2008 R2 (one for something else).

    Adjusting the 2010 order to 120 users (was purchased over time as they grew) it is definitely more expensive now.
    These numbers also happen to be from the same VAR.

    That's interesting. The difference in virtualization rights could have some factor in Server OS costs. Exchange pretty much matches inflation. Exchange User CALs definitely higher.