MS's plans for Windows 10?
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@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
I have to come up with reasons why a client should replace 20 of their 'never had a second of trouble with them' Windows 7 running PCs.
Because no one has problems when they don't change their oil, until they have no engine.
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@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
We tend to replace PCs when the OS goes end of life.
This was always a horrible practice, not keeping systems up to date. Time to encourage fixing that to "always being up to date and refreshing hardware when it makes sense." Refreshing hardware on a software cycle is bad for both the hardware and the software.
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Nothing has changed. Hardware will still go obsolete. New versions will still require new hardware.
Microsoft is not stupid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history -
@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
I'm thinking I could tell the client that MS have no plans to replace W10 with W11 so therefore the new PCs they should buy, will have a long lifespan as the EOL issue won't arise in which they will be faced with having to upgrade their OS & PCs again.
Does that make sense?This is a good practice, the question should be "why wasn't this always the practice?" Windows 10's version cycle after the rename doens't change what is a good practice. This is probably how it should have been historically.
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Windows NT / Windows / Windows 10 version history...
Number Common Name 1 Windows NT 3.1 2 Windows NT 3.5 3 Windows NT 3.51 4 Windows NT 4 5 Windows 2000 6 Windows XP 7 Windows 2003 8 Windows Vista / 2008 9 Windows 7 / 2008 R2 10 Windows 8 / 2012 11 Windows 8.1 / 2012 R2 12 Windows 10 1507 13 Windows 10 1511 14 Windows 10 1607 15 Windows 10 1703 16 Windows 10 1709 17 Windows 10 1803 18 Windows 10 1809 19 Windows 10 1903 -
Thanks everyone for the help.
I'm trying to get some thoughts on whether Windows 10 will be replaced within the next few years. I'm trying to prepare an answer for the question:
"why should we upgrade now, Windows 11 will probably be out in 2 years, will we have to upgrade then as well?"
My thinking is that Windows 10 currently receives feature updates, which, my understanding is, they accumulate and you end up with the latest version of Windows, which is still known as Windows 10.
If Windows 10 continues, ad infinitum, receiving updates and never has a name change to Windows 11, then I'll have an answer to that question.
People don't give a rats what things are called, they just don't want to unnecessarily spend money.
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@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
I'm trying to get some thoughts on whether Windows 10 will be replaced within the next few years.
Think of it as "I'm trying to get some thoughts of whether Windows 10 1809 will be replaced within the next few years?"
And the answer is, it gets replaced in the next few WEEKS.
Always refer to Windows 10 as the product, and 1809 (or whatever) as the version.
Imagine asking if "Windows was going to be replaced." By what, Linux? macOS? Sounds silly, right? Since Windows 10 isn't a version, but a product name, replacing it would make no sense unless what comes out is a totally different thing.
No amount of time makes "Windows" get replaced. But over time, it might get a new name, like "Windows 10".
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@scottalanmiller said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
I'm trying to get some thoughts on whether Windows 10 will be replaced within the next few years.
Think of it as "I'm trying to get some thoughts of whether Windows 10 1809 will be replaced within the next few years?"
And the answer is, it gets replaced in the next few WEEKS.
Always refer to Windows 10 as the product, and 1809 (or whatever) as the version.
Imagine asking if "Windows was going to be replaced." By what, Linux? macOS? Sounds silly, right? Since Windows 10 isn't a version, but a product name, replacing it would make no sense unless what comes out is a totally different thing.
No amount of time makes "Windows" get replaced. But over time, it might get a new name, like "Windows 10".
Thanks Scott, I appreciate you taking the time to get a bit deeper on that. I'll let your words sink in.
Thanks again.
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The bigger problem is why are they on Windows 7? You said these are 4 years old. That was 2015. Windows 10 had been out for years at that point.
Were they OEM purchased computers? Then install Windows 10 on them, as they are licensed for it already.
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@JaredBusch said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
The bigger problem is why are they on Windows 7? You said these are 4 years old. That was 2015. Windows 10 had been out for years at that point.
This. A lot of us deal with Windows 7 still. But it is definitely into the "it's a problem" arena for all of us.
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@JaredBusch said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
The bigger problem is why are they on Windows 7? You said these are 4 years old. That was 2015. Windows 10 had been out for years at that point.
Were they OEM purchased computers? Then install Windows 10 on them, as they are licensed for it already.
This is a client with no inhouse IT support and in a rural area, so the decision was made to give them what they already knew.
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@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@JaredBusch said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
The bigger problem is why are they on Windows 7? You said these are 4 years old. That was 2015. Windows 10 had been out for years at that point.
Were they OEM purchased computers? Then install Windows 10 on them, as they are licensed for it already.
This is a client with no inhouse IT support and in a rural area, so the decision was made to give them what they already knew.
I think that that tends to make things worse rather than better. It makes them become not just dependent on Windows, but dependent on a specific version. So instead of having them gradually learn and adapt over time to small, incremental changes they instead get whopping amounts of time on a non-evolving version and then follow that with a huge fork lift to a drastically new version.
It both increases the shock of the change by making the change bigger when it comes, it also causes more "settling in" to one thing that normally would not happen.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@JaredBusch said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
The bigger problem is why are they on Windows 7? You said these are 4 years old. That was 2015. Windows 10 had been out for years at that point.
Were they OEM purchased computers? Then install Windows 10 on them, as they are licensed for it already.
This is a client with no inhouse IT support and in a rural area, so the decision was made to give them what they already knew.
I think that that tends to make things worse rather than better. It makes them become not just dependent on Windows, but dependent on a specific version. So instead of having them gradually learn and adapt over time to small, incremental changes they instead get whopping amounts of time on a non-evolving version and then follow that with a huge fork lift to a drastically new version.
It both increases the shock of the change by making the change bigger when it comes, it also causes more "settling in" to one thing that normally would not happen.
Yep, I understand what you're talking about, but as with everything each situation needs to be supplied with it's own solution.
The reasoning was, give them W7 as that's what they're familiar with. Then, in a few years when W7 reaches end of life, it was expected that at least 50% of the staff will have had hands on experience, or at least seen W10 via personal devices, friends, schooling etc, thereby reducing the learning curve of a new OS. Also, there would be staff onsite that could at least help others with basic W10 support.
It's also expected that this will remove very basic support requests.
As it turns out, this is exactly what has happened. I'm not concerned that the client's staff will have trouble with W10 as over the past few years I've put a few W10 PCs in as others have died, some staff now have W10 laptops etc. Whereas if I had put W10 in back then, I was concerned.
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Is the impetus to change the computers legitimately the OS EOL or are we trying to get a HW lifecycle routine going? If the true concern is actually the OS and they're already OEM licensed, just do as someone else suggested and reformat the existing machines with W10 (I'd change the drives to SSD if they're still mechanical) and you should be good for another decent timeframe.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
I'm thinking I could tell the client that MS have no plans to replace W10 with W11 so therefore the new PCs they should buy, will have a long lifespan as the EOL issue won't arise in which they will be faced with having to upgrade their OS & PCs again.
Does that make sense?This is a good practice, the question should be "why wasn't this always the practice?" Windows 10's version cycle after the rename doens't change what is a good practice. This is probably how it should have been historically.
People simply don't look at their computer that way - what other things in life do we need to upgrade on a regular basis like we do our software? Cars last 20+ years (if their owners do the normal maintenance), TVs can last 20+ years - only because of format changes have been pretty much been forced into a new one, Washer/Dryer/Dishwasher - all things that last 10+ years with little to no maintenance.
Of course you're going to toss in the adulting thing, and I don't disagree - but the general non IT public just doesn't get it - or care! And most business owners fall into that category.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
I'm trying to get some thoughts on whether Windows 10 will be replaced within the next few years.
Think of it as "I'm trying to get some thoughts of whether Windows 10 1809 will be replaced within the next few years?"
And the answer is, it gets replaced in the next few WEEKS.
Always refer to Windows 10 as the product, and 1809 (or whatever) as the version.
Imagine asking if "Windows was going to be replaced." By what, Linux? macOS? Sounds silly, right? Since Windows 10 isn't a version, but a product name, replacing it would make no sense unless what comes out is a totally different thing.
No amount of time makes "Windows" get replaced. But over time, it might get a new name, like "Windows 10".
WAT? While I do understand what you're saying Scott - It seems like you're talking about something the OP doesn't care about.
To answer @siringo question - Will MS be releasing a new version of Windows that they have to purchase in the next few years? The answer is no. Windows 10 will get upgrades forever for free. That said - there will come a time when MS will stop supporting specific hardware, so one of those upgrades will be the LAST upgrade you'll get - after which you'll get security updates for 18 more months, after that, MS will End of Life that version of Windows 10, and you'll need to purchase newer hardware to be able to use the latest version of Windows 10.
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@JaredBusch said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
The bigger problem is why are they on Windows 7? You said these are 4 years old. That was 2015. Windows 10 had been out for years at that point.
Were they OEM purchased computers? Then install Windows 10 on them, as they are licensed for it already.
WAT? Windows 10 was released in July 2015, so if he purchased them in March of 2015, no they wouldn't have Windows 10 rights. If he purchased them post July 2015, then maybe, but not 100%, it will have rights for Windows 10 - many manufacturers sold Windows 7 licenses only after the release of Windows 10.
And only if you have Windows 10 Pro/Enterprise do you have downgrade rights - and while he is working on computers that belong to a business - I know a ton of businesses that use Windows Home edition.
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@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@scottalanmiller said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@JaredBusch said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
The bigger problem is why are they on Windows 7? You said these are 4 years old. That was 2015. Windows 10 had been out for years at that point.
Were they OEM purchased computers? Then install Windows 10 on them, as they are licensed for it already.
This is a client with no inhouse IT support and in a rural area, so the decision was made to give them what they already knew.
I think that that tends to make things worse rather than better. It makes them become not just dependent on Windows, but dependent on a specific version. So instead of having them gradually learn and adapt over time to small, incremental changes they instead get whopping amounts of time on a non-evolving version and then follow that with a huge fork lift to a drastically new version.
It both increases the shock of the change by making the change bigger when it comes, it also causes more "settling in" to one thing that normally would not happen.
Yep, I understand what you're talking about, but as with everything each situation needs to be supplied with it's own solution.
The reasoning was, give them W7 as that's what they're familiar with. Then, in a few years when W7 reaches end of life, it was expected that at least 50% of the staff will have had hands on experience, or at least seen W10 via personal devices, friends, schooling etc, thereby reducing the learning curve of a new OS. Also, there would be staff onsite that could at least help others with basic W10 support.
It's also expected that this will remove very basic support requests.
As it turns out, this is exactly what has happened. I'm not concerned that the client's staff will have trouble with W10 as over the past few years I've put a few W10 PCs in as others have died, some staff now have W10 laptops etc. Whereas if I had put W10 in back then, I was concerned.
I ripped the bandaid - I picked a department and moved them to Window 10 1511. They never really had much of an issue. After a few months I started upgrading the rest of the company - wanted to upgrade the entire company before the 1 year anniversary of Windows 10 so we could get the free upgrade - and I did. Sadly I did have to leave 4 computers behind on Windows 7 for an application issue, but that was pretty minor.
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@Dashrender said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@scottalanmiller said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@siringo said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
@JaredBusch said in MS's plans for Windows 10?:
The bigger problem is why are they on Windows 7? You said these are 4 years old. That was 2015. Windows 10 had been out for years at that point.
Were they OEM purchased computers? Then install Windows 10 on them, as they are licensed for it already.
This is a client with no inhouse IT support and in a rural area, so the decision was made to give them what they already knew.
I think that that tends to make things worse rather than better. It makes them become not just dependent on Windows, but dependent on a specific version. So instead of having them gradually learn and adapt over time to small, incremental changes they instead get whopping amounts of time on a non-evolving version and then follow that with a huge fork lift to a drastically new version.
It both increases the shock of the change by making the change bigger when it comes, it also causes more "settling in" to one thing that normally would not happen.
Yep, I understand what you're talking about, but as with everything each situation needs to be supplied with it's own solution.
The reasoning was, give them W7 as that's what they're familiar with. Then, in a few years when W7 reaches end of life, it was expected that at least 50% of the staff will have had hands on experience, or at least seen W10 via personal devices, friends, schooling etc, thereby reducing the learning curve of a new OS. Also, there would be staff onsite that could at least help others with basic W10 support.
It's also expected that this will remove very basic support requests.
As it turns out, this is exactly what has happened. I'm not concerned that the client's staff will have trouble with W10 as over the past few years I've put a few W10 PCs in as others have died, some staff now have W10 laptops etc. Whereas if I had put W10 in back then, I was concerned.
I ripped the bandaid - I picked a department and moved them to Window 10 1511. They never really had much of an issue. After a few months I started upgrading the rest of the company - wanted to upgrade the entire company before the 1 year anniversary of Windows 10 so we could get the free upgrade - and I did. Sadly I did have to leave 4 computers behind on Windows 7 for an application issue, but that was pretty minor.
Mind you - I only upgraded them to Windows 10 because it was free for the license - of course my time isn't free - but I'm on staff, so - yeah yeah yeah.. whatever.
But I've never before upgraded Windows at a corporate level because MS released a new (Paid) upgrade. Most businesses simply don't do that - no matter what Scott says, thinks or otherwise. They stick with the OS that the hardware came with, and upgrade their OS based on their hardware Refresh cycle.
Another reason I upgraded to Windows 10 is that I'm hoping that my hardware will last longer than Windows 7's EOL date. Granted it won't be much longer after the EOL that Windows 7 machines will likely last - Windows 7 stopped being sold as the primary in Oct 2012 with the release of Windows 8, so if you have a Windows 7 only licensed machine - that's some old ass shit... and Windows 7's EOL will make the computer 8+ years old... yeah, likely time to replace.
If your machines came with Windows 8 (or 8.1) which seems likely because of the stated age of the devices (or they could be Windows 10 licensed if they are under 4 years old), you could upgrade the current devices to Windows 8.1 and live there until 2022 - which will hopefully be after a scheduled hardware replacement, at which time you'll get a Windows 10 license on your new machine.
