All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
Same. It's just a much better option in the long haul.
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
My users have shown that when they have to manage plugs on a daily basis, they damage them regularly. We're lucky we don't have more issues with power connectors.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
My users have shown that when they have to manage plugs on a daily basis, they damage them regularly. We're lucky we don't have more issues with power connectors.
So eliminate the responsibility of having to plug things in.
Get a softphone and have people start using that wholesale.
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@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
My users have shown that when they have to manage plugs on a daily basis, they damage them regularly. We're lucky we don't have more issues with power connectors.
So eliminate the responsibility of having to plug things in.
Get a softphone and have people start using that wholesale.
huh? not sure where this came from?
today users move from station to station, only plugging in their power brick to power their laptops. They just use the phone at the desk they are sitting at that time.
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So this thread kinda went all over the place yesterday.
recap
Stay with Mitel - Pay $10K to upgrade old digital system, keep current phones, replace as they fail.
Just to have another number to work with - if I replaced all of the OLD digital phones (34) that would add another $168/ea = $5712Move to FreePBX, purchase 122 new phones, 3 new switches, Plus unknown cabling changes (many phones currently run on CAT 3 - at minimum, those lines would need to be pulled out and moved to the networking closet and connected to a switch = cost)
122 * $87 = $10,614
switches = $2250
total before cabling changes $12,864So I could move to a whole new system for approx $13,000
or an updated Mitel with more modern phones to replace really old ones for about $16,000Or do a bare bone comparison
Mitel $10,000 no other changes
All New - $13,000 + cabling unknown. -
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
So this thread kinda went all over the place yesterday.
recap
Stay with Mitel - Pay $10K to upgrade old digital system, keep current phones, replace as they fail.
Just to have another number to work with - if I replaced all of the OLD digital phones (34) that would add another $168/ea = $5712Move to FreePBX, purchase 122 new phones, 3 new switches, Plus unknown cabling changes (many phones currently run on CAT 3 - at minimum, those lines would need to be pulled out and moved to the networking closet and connected to a switch = cost)
122 * $87 = $10,614
switches = $2250
total before cabling changes $12,864So I could move to a whole new system for approx $13,000
or an updated Mitel with more modern phones to replace really old ones for about $16,000Or do a bare bone comparison
Mitel $10,000 no other changes
All New - $13,000 + cabling unknown.Wrong comparison.
All New:- Mitel - $16,000 + cabling
- FreePBX - $13,000 + cabling
Upgrade Mitel but keep old phones - $10,000
Apples and Oranges and stuff.
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Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
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@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
I'm 90% sure it's CAT 3. These lines were installed in the early 90's.
There's not that many that would need to be redone. Just the ones hanging on walls with no computers near by. That's 10 (just counted). -
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
I'm 90% sure it's CAT 3. These lines were installed in the early 90's.
There's not that many that would need to be redone. Just the ones hanging on walls with no computers near by. That's 10 (just counted).You can absolutely rewire standard 2 pair CAT3 for PoE. You will likely need to tell the switch to use 10mb Full so it does not drop all the time trying to negotiate higher speeds. I owuld never want to run something else behind a phone like this.
It is in the spec of CAT3. Even if everyone doens't remember the 90's.
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The 802.3af standard fully supports CAT3 with PoE.
In this image from Wikipedia, you can see that in the column 10/100 mode A, mixed DC & Data,
Pins 1, 2, 3, & 6.
All you need is for an installer to reterminate your current RJ11 to RJ45 using the 4 wires in the CAT3 cable.
On the other end, they rip it off the 66 blocks and terminate them in a new patch panel.
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@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
I'm 90% sure it's CAT 3. These lines were installed in the early 90's.
There's not that many that would need to be redone. Just the ones hanging on walls with no computers near by. That's 10 (just counted).You can absolutely rewire standard 2 pair CAT3 for PoE. You will likely need to tell the switch to use 10mb Full so it does not drop all the time trying to negotiate higher speeds. I owuld never want to run something else behind a phone like this.
It is in the spec of CAT3. Even if everyone doens't remember the 90's.
oh - no worries on running a PC behind a phone like this.
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@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
The 802.3af standard fully supports CAT3 with PoE.
In this image from Wikipedia, you can see that in the column 10/100 mode A, mixed DC & Data,
Pins 1, 2, 3, & 6.
All you need is for an installer to reterminate your current RJ11 to RJ45 using the 4 wires in the CAT3 cable.
On the other end, they rip it off the 66 blocks and terminate them in a new patch panel.
Yep - already sent out a request for a quote for this process.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
I'm 90% sure it's CAT 3. These lines were installed in the early 90's.
There's not that many that would need to be redone. Just the ones hanging on walls with no computers near by. That's 10 (just counted).You can absolutely rewire standard 2 pair CAT3 for PoE. You will likely need to tell the switch to use 10mb Full so it does not drop all the time trying to negotiate higher speeds. I owuld never want to run something else behind a phone like this.
It is in the spec of CAT3. Even if everyone doens't remember the 90's.
oh - no worries on running a PC behind a phone like this.
Not if FastEthernet is fast enough.
And if you do that, you can go with cheaper FastEthernet phones.
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
I'm 90% sure it's CAT 3. These lines were installed in the early 90's.
There's not that many that would need to be redone. Just the ones hanging on walls with no computers near by. That's 10 (just counted).You can absolutely rewire standard 2 pair CAT3 for PoE. You will likely need to tell the switch to use 10mb Full so it does not drop all the time trying to negotiate higher speeds. I owuld never want to run something else behind a phone like this.
It is in the spec of CAT3. Even if everyone doens't remember the 90's.
oh - no worries on running a PC behind a phone like this.
Not if FastEthernet is fast enough.
And if you do that, you can go with cheaper FastEthernet phones.
uh - yeah OK..
technically FastEthernet is fast enough - my internet connection is only 100m/20m and 99% of the things users do are on the internet.But I still wouldn't try to put a PC behind a phone setup on CAT 3, not in my situation.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
But I still wouldn't try to put a PC behind a phone setup on CAT 3, not in my situation.
What's the concern? If CAT3 does the job, it's a pass/fail situation and in this case would pass. So why spend extra?
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Why would you put a phone on CAT3, when a phone is just a computer too, and not a desktop? What's the logic for one being okay and not the other?
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
My users have shown that when they have to manage plugs on a daily basis, they damage them regularly. We're lucky we don't have more issues with power connectors.
So eliminate the responsibility of having to plug things in.
Get a softphone and have people start using that wholesale.
huh? not sure where this came from?
today users move from station to station, only plugging in their power brick to power their laptops. They just use the phone at the desk they are sitting at that time.
They move laptops around instead of having stations to sign into?
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
But I still wouldn't try to put a PC behind a phone setup on CAT 3, not in my situation.
What's the concern? If CAT3 does the job, it's a pass/fail situation and in this case would pass. So why spend extra?
I suppose - but the reality is that in the places where I have to do this - there are no computers. that's actually why I have to do it. There are many phones, about 15 more, that are in similar situations, but there was a possibility for the need for a computer in the future, so there is already a Cat 5 cable there.
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
My users have shown that when they have to manage plugs on a daily basis, they damage them regularly. We're lucky we don't have more issues with power connectors.
So eliminate the responsibility of having to plug things in.
Get a softphone and have people start using that wholesale.
huh? not sure where this came from?
today users move from station to station, only plugging in their power brick to power their laptops. They just use the phone at the desk they are sitting at that time.
They move laptops around instead of having stations to sign into?
Yes - because roaming profiles suck!
The alternative would be RDS or VDI, but that just makes the expense even higher. -
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
But I still wouldn't try to put a PC behind a phone setup on CAT 3, not in my situation.
What's the concern? If CAT3 does the job, it's a pass/fail situation and in this case would pass. So why spend extra?
I suppose - but the reality is that in the places where I have to do this - there are no computers. that's actually why I have to do it. There are many phones, about 15 more, that are in similar situations, but there was a possibility for the need for a computer in the future, so there is already a Cat 5 cable there.
New lines, CAT6e of course. But where CAT3 already exists... you can use it.
