New PBX - on prem or off?
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@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@DustinB3403 said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@black3dynamite said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
For your fax need, e-Fax is not an option?
The machines do support this - though I've never looked it up. I'm not sure what it takes to make it work. I can tell you if it's a per page charge - nope, won't work. The last several services I looked at would be in excess of $700/month because of our volume. But two POTS lines only costs us $80/m so huge savings.
How many faxes a month are sent/received?
Over 700 pages a day.
That's insane!
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Your daily fax volume is probably the same as our yearly volume... that being said, we've never had any problems in the ~5 years since switching to VOIP with our fax machines connected to $65 Cisco SPA-112's
Something in my gut is telling me that this isn't going to be a robust enough solution, but I really don't know :man_shrugging:
Faxing a single page to faxtoy.net was $0.021 on Twilio
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@bnrstnr said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
Your daily fax volume is probably the same as our yearly volume... that being said, we've never had any problems in the ~5 years since switching to VOIP with our fax machines connected to $65 Cisco SPA-112's
Something in my gut is telling me that this isn't going to be a robust enough solution, but I really don't know :man_shrugging:
Faxing a single page to faxtoy.net was $0.021 on Twilio
Math people.. it is a basic thing..
$0.021 * 700 pages * 20 days = $294 per month. -
@JaredBusch that's assuming that dash only receives/sends faxes on weekdays but yeah. The cost would be the hard pill to swallow.
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On-prem must be the only option here.
Internal calls is a must-have thing in a lot of companies and I imagine a doctors office being one of them.
I don't know what is required to get HA on the PBX but PBX itself has a very low capacity requirement. All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call. So I think two low power servers/appliances setup would work great - if the on-prem IT infrastructure and support is not up to the HA 24/7/365.
Redundant WAN with different operators will take care of the link to the provider. Providers themselves are already redundant.
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@DustinB3403 said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch that's assuming that dash only receives/sends faxes on weekdays but yeah. The cost would be the hard pill to swallow.
Yep, this is why I have given up on the idea of using a fax service. They just can’t compete against a plain ol pots line.
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
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@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
Very sure. It is a simple setting to flip, but the default is for the PBX to stay in the path.
SIP is only the signaling, that is correct. But SIP goes from point to point only.
Phone to PBX, done.
Then PBX to Phone2, done.
The PBX can then allow the phones to reinvite themselves to a direct call.
But it is something that it has to allow.I never recommend this for day to day use as you lose all ability to track your call flow and troubleshoot.
Special circumstance for a certain business need, can certainly mean turning this setting on.
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@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
This would not be a u-turn. The PBX woudl inform the phone of each other's IP and port and the phones would simply establish a direct path for the RTP.
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@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
This would not be a u-turn. The PBX woudl inform the phone of each other's IP and port and the phones would simply establish a direct path for the RTP.
What happens when both phones are behind the same firewall. Doesn’t the PBX from outside of the firewall only see the outside single IP of that firewall.
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@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
This would not be a u-turn. The PBX woudl inform the phone of each other's IP and port and the phones would simply establish a direct path for the RTP.
What happens when both phones are behind the same firewall. Doesn’t the PBX from outside of the firewall only see the outside single IP of that firewall.
No. All of the information is in the SIP headers.
Here is what Asterisk knows about my extensio right now.
Two registrations. One at my house, one at a client.
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
SIP hands off, yes. PBX hands off, no.
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@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
This would not be a u-turn. The PBX woudl inform the phone of each other's IP and port and the phones would simply establish a direct path for the RTP.
Same thing that MeshCentral does, or ZeroTier.
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@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
This would not be a u-turn. The PBX woudl inform the phone of each other's IP and port and the phones would simply establish a direct path for the RTP.
What happens when both phones are behind the same firewall. Doesn’t the PBX from outside of the firewall only see the outside single IP of that firewall.
No, that's not how services work. If it was, things like email, web browsing and so forth would not work.
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@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
Very sure. It is a simple setting to flip, but the default is for the PBX to stay in the path.
SIP is only the signaling, that is correct. But SIP goes from point to point only.
Phone to PBX, done.
Then PBX to Phone2, done.
The PBX can then allow the phones to reinvite themselves to a direct call.
But it is something that it has to allow.I never recommend this for day to day use as you lose all ability to track your call flow and troubleshoot.
Special circumstance for a certain business need, can certainly mean turning this setting on.
Makes sense. I'm mostly familiar with 3CX and it actually seems to be the opposite there.
The options for each extension are:- PBX Delivers Audio (default off)
- Support Re-Invites (default on)
- Support 'Replaces' header (default on)
I don't know how much difference this makes on the PBX server load though. If you had 20 calls going on how many megabits per second would that be?
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
I don't know how much difference this makes on the PBX server load though. If you had 20 calls going on how many megabits per second would that be?
Assuming ULAW? 2mbps
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
Makes sense. I'm mostly familiar with 3CX and it actually seems to be the opposite there.
The options for each extension are:- PBX Delivers Audio (default off)
- Support Re-Invites (default on)
- Support 'Replaces' header (default on)
Support reinvite on the endpoint does not mean the PBX has it enabled. But I do not know enough about 3CX to tell you without being in a system.
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@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
Makes sense. I'm mostly familiar with 3CX and it actually seems to be the opposite there.
The options for each extension are:- PBX Delivers Audio (default off)
- Support Re-Invites (default on)
- Support 'Replaces' header (default on)
Support reinvite on the endpoint does not mean the PBX has it enabled. But I do not know enough about 3CX to tell you without being in a system.
I'm no expert so I don't know. The point of my original post was that the PBX requires very little resources but perhaps that is true only in the few cases where the audio doesn't flow through the PBX.
