Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice
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@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@flaxking said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@flaxking said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
I live in Canada and I've never had a job where there was an expectation that I could refuse any duties assigned to me without getting fired (unless they were unsafe)
The US absolutely does not have anything like people are implying it has, not in the least. It is something being projected from union contracts where collective bargaining has made a strict scope of what someone is allowed to do, and they are thinking that somehow those contracts apply to non-union workers, which they do not.
Yes, that kind of thinking is more up the union alley. And although Canadian labour laws have been influenced by unions, they are still vastly different workplaces. For example, in the trades, of you are non unionized there is often an expectation you will do work unsafely without reporting it, if it's what you need to do to get the job done. However, if you are unionized it is the complete opposite.
In the US, unsafe work is never required. But lots of people in any sector, union or not, do it anyway because so many people literally don't care or some actually think that they have to. But mostly that's just an excuse, it's so clear everywhere that you can't be pressured into that.
Right - OSHA - 'nuff said.
OSHA generally isn't taken seriously. At least at a number of places I've worked at. Only 1 place actually cared and had qualified safety professional on hand to make sure that employees weren't put at risk.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@flaxking said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@flaxking said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
I live in Canada and I've never had a job where there was an expectation that I could refuse any duties assigned to me without getting fired (unless they were unsafe)
The US absolutely does not have anything like people are implying it has, not in the least. It is something being projected from union contracts where collective bargaining has made a strict scope of what someone is allowed to do, and they are thinking that somehow those contracts apply to non-union workers, which they do not.
Yes, that kind of thinking is more up the union alley. And although Canadian labour laws have been influenced by unions, they are still vastly different workplaces. For example, in the trades, of you are non unionized there is often an expectation you will do work unsafely without reporting it, if it's what you need to do to get the job done. However, if you are unionized it is the complete opposite.
In the US, unsafe work is never required. But lots of people in any sector, union or not, do it anyway because so many people literally don't care or some actually think that they have to. But mostly that's just an excuse, it's so clear everywhere that you can't be pressured into that.
Right - OSHA - 'nuff said.
OSHA generally isn't taken seriously. At least at a number of places I've worked at. Only 1 place actually cared and had qualified safety professional on hand to make sure that employees weren't put at risk.
that's because they haven't been audited by osha. They get audited and have to pay huge fines AND still fix the problems.. they'll pay attention.
If the employees aren't reporting the company to osha - well, that's those employees problems then.
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@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
well, that's those employees problems then
So it's the employees fault for being told to do something, and getting hurt while doing it and then failing to report it to OSHA?
You do realize it's the employer who is required to comply with OSHA and to not have the employee doing something that isn't safe.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
well, that's those employees problems then
So it's the employees fault for being told to do something, and getting hurt while doing it and then failing to report it to OSHA?
Employees who don't report things that they know are unsafe are definitely part of the problem. It's everyone's responsibility to say something when they see something.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
You do realize it's the employer who is required to comply with OSHA and to not have the employee doing something that isn't safe.
It's both. The employer has to comply by law, but the law only works when employees report.
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@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
well, that's those employees problems then
So it's the employees fault for being told to do something, and getting hurt while doing it and then failing to report it to OSHA?
Employees who don't report things that they know are unsafe are definitely part of the problem. It's everyone's responsibility to say something when they see something.
That's a different talking point than what dash has mentioned.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
well, that's those employees problems then
So it's the employees fault for being told to do something, and getting hurt while doing it and then failing to report it to OSHA?
You do realize it's the employer who is required to comply with OSHA and to not have the employee doing something that isn't safe.
Yes - it's the employees fault for not refusing to do something unsafe - and then instantly reporting it to OSHA. That would not be a fireable offense - but of course - at will work in most states, so the company could let them go for any number of other reasons.. which is the real reason people don't turn their employers in.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
well, that's those employees problems then
So it's the employees fault for being told to do something, and getting hurt while doing it and then failing to report it to OSHA?
Employees who don't report things that they know are unsafe are definitely part of the problem. It's everyone's responsibility to say something when they see something.
That's a different talking point than what dash has mentioned.
No - it's not.
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@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
well, that's those employees problems then
So it's the employees fault for being told to do something, and getting hurt while doing it and then failing to report it to OSHA?
You do realize it's the employer who is required to comply with OSHA and to not have the employee doing something that isn't safe.
Yes - it's the employees fault for not refusing to do something unsafe - and then instantly reporting it to OSHA. That would not be a fireable offense - but of course - at will work in most states, so the company could let them go for any number of other reasons.. which is the real reason people don't turn their employers in.
It is not up to the employee to know what is and isn't safe. That is what safety officers are for and why business should have them.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
well, that's those employees problems then
So it's the employees fault for being told to do something, and getting hurt while doing it and then failing to report it to OSHA?
You do realize it's the employer who is required to comply with OSHA and to not have the employee doing something that isn't safe.
Yes - it's the employees fault for not refusing to do something unsafe - and then instantly reporting it to OSHA. That would not be a fireable offense - but of course - at will work in most states, so the company could let them go for any number of other reasons.. which is the real reason people don't turn their employers in.
It is not up to the employee to know what is and isn't safe. That is what safety officers are for and why business should have them.
Of course it is. Just like it's up to the government to know about it's laws - but without the media, etc keeping the government in check - just like the employees keeping the company in check by reporting to OSHA when a company fumbles - then the company will just say - awww screw it, I'm going to save money and not bother with safety things, because what's going to happen - oh yeah - NOTHING?
So, As Scott said - The companies are required to do it - but it's also up to the employees to keep them honest.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
well, that's those employees problems then
So it's the employees fault for being told to do something, and getting hurt while doing it and then failing to report it to OSHA?
You do realize it's the employer who is required to comply with OSHA and to not have the employee doing something that isn't safe.
Yes - it's the employees fault for not refusing to do something unsafe - and then instantly reporting it to OSHA. That would not be a fireable offense - but of course - at will work in most states, so the company could let them go for any number of other reasons.. which is the real reason people don't turn their employers in.
It is not up to the employee to know what is and isn't safe. That is what safety officers are for and why business should have them.
That's not logical or reasonable. Not all companies can have safety people. You need to try running your own business sometime. you can't possible have all of these specialty positions in a normal business. By that logic, you'd have like ten people on payroll without a single person actually working. Businesses can't sustain that way.
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@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
So, As Scott said - The companies are required to do it - but it's also up to the employees to keep them honest.
Same with all laws. Just like it is up to the employee to report if they don't get paid, for example.
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@Dashrender again no it's not.
The safety officer is supposed to be impartial and make sure that anything the business needs done is performed in a safe manner.
An employee can report an employer for things they believe to be unsafe, but that doesn't mean it's their responsibility to do this as the employee may have no clue at all what is and isn't safe regarding the job.
@scottalanmiller is just as off on this as you are @Dashrender. Imagine if the receptionist called OSHA because you were punching down cables on your block and pinched your finger? This would be wasted resources for an OSHA audit and it's why there are supposed to be Safety Officers.
You know it's not unsafe, you won't get electrocuted and OSHA would say the same.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller is just as off on this as you are @Dashrender. Imagine if the receptionist called OSHA because you were punching down cables on your block and pinched your finger?
And you think this applies to what we are discussing how? This is out of the blue and a tangent. Not what anyone here was discussing.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
You know it's not unsafe, you won't get electrocuted and OSHA would say the same.
So you are saying we DON'T need to worry about OSHA, because ... why?
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@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller is just as off on this as you are @Dashrender. Imagine if the receptionist called OSHA because you were punching down cables on your block and pinched your finger?
And you think this applies to what we are discussing how? This is out of the blue and a tangent. Not what anyone here was discussing.
Is there a specific example to discuss? I've provided one. An employee who has called OSHA over something perceived to be dangerous.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller is just as off on this as you are @Dashrender. Imagine if the receptionist called OSHA because you were punching down cables on your block and pinched your finger?
And you think this applies to what we are discussing how? This is out of the blue and a tangent. Not what anyone here was discussing.
Is there a specific example to discuss? I've provided one. An employee who has called OSHA over something perceived to be dangerous.
We weren't asking for examples. No need for something so weird.
Employer asks employee to do something unsafe, employee say "no, that's unsafe". Employer says "tough, do it anyway". Employee calls OSHA.
Simple, obvious, common sense. How it all is supposed to work.
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@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
You know it's not unsafe, you won't get electrocuted and OSHA would say the same.
So you are saying we DON'T need to worry about OSHA, because ... why?
I never said that, I said that the Safety Officer (hat if you will) can make a unbiased decision about the request that has been made to the employee from the employer.
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@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
You know it's not unsafe, you won't get electrocuted and OSHA would say the same.
So you are saying we DON'T need to worry about OSHA, because ... why?
I never said that, I said that the Safety Officer (hat if you will) can make a unbiased decision about the request that has been made to the employee from the employer.
So the receptionist was your safety officer. They fulfilled your requirement but got it wrong. People make mistakes.
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@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@DustinB3403 said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:
@scottalanmiller is just as off on this as you are @Dashrender. Imagine if the receptionist called OSHA because you were punching down cables on your block and pinched your finger?
And you think this applies to what we are discussing how? This is out of the blue and a tangent. Not what anyone here was discussing.
Is there a specific example to discuss? I've provided one. An employee who has called OSHA over something perceived to be dangerous.
We weren't asking for examples. No need for something so weird.
Employer asks employee to do something unsafe, employee say "no, that's unsafe". Employer says "tough, do it anyway". Employee calls OSHA.
Simple, obvious, common sense. How it all is supposed to work.
Taking your example
Employer ask employee to take out trash, employee says no I could slip and fall because of the ice. Employee calls OSHA.
Wasted effort.
