Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be
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What @Jimmy9008 posted and you @dyasny are used to seeing are "Contract Employees" in the US.
You're hired to work <usually some set length of time> and will be paid X with these benefits and these Exit options.
A normal hire in the US is, you're hired Fulltime/Parttime at X/hour(or salary) and work until you either quit or are terminated.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 so he walks out the door, and the employer refuses to pay what is owed for the last month. And there is no regulation for such a case? Damn, I wouldn't want to live in a place where this is the norm.
Of course they still owe him for any time worked. Him walking out the door/quitting has nothing to do with that. Sure they could make him sue them over it, but then he could likely go after some damages as well, I would assume that wouldn't be worth it to the company - just pay him and let him go.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
And all I wanted to do was open up a conversation so they could start looking for a replacement. I wasn't expecting a circus.What were you realistically expecting?
I think he was hoping for a "risk mitigation plan" but presented it incorrectly. What would have been good would have been a discussion without the idea of him leaving but a "I'm in a key man position because my boss isn't capable of doing her or my jobs, so we need to talk about how we are going to fix the risk of me getting hit by a bus." Present it that way and you are just doing your IT job. Talk about planning to leave and that's something they can pressure you out of or blame you for, but they can't stop you or blame you for getting killed.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
There could be, usually those are written into a contract. But those benefits do not always exist.
Let's restate that - in the US, those benefits rarely exist, at least directly from the company. The person can file unemployment with the state, but that's a whole different ball game.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Your mistake was trying to be nice. Learn from that. Next time, resign after finding a new role, tell them when you are going.
This was made harder by the fact that he is already in that new role and has been transitioning out.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
What @Jimmy9008 posted and you @dyasny are used to seeing are "Contract Employees" in the US.
You're hired to work <usually some set length of time> and will be paid X with these benefits and these Exit options.
A normal hire in the US is, you're hired Fulltime/Parttime at X/hour(or salary) and work until you either quit or are terminated.
I don't think we have that in the UK. I guess zero hour contracts perhaps, but even then it is still slightly different. Every contract I have ever seen (even delivery driver for a Pizza joint) are all "Contract Employees" as you put it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Your mistake was trying to be nice. Learn from that. Next time, resign after finding a new role, tell them when you are going.
This was made harder by the fact that he is already in that new role and has been transitioning out.
Yeah he already accepted the new pay rate and has been doing this for who knows how long already.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
In the UK it depends. If you are sacked due to gross misconduct you wont get any money. If you are made redundant, you will get a set amount based on length of employment (could be more, but by law its at least that set amount), and if you take voluntary redundancy, you get a package as setup by the former employer... so, it depends.
If you signed a contract for 3 months notice, usually you can negotiate to leave early if you really want. "Im going to give two months". But, if you just walk out you didnt mean your contractual obligations and that could have ramifications.
That's more what I'm used to seeing!
This is just something that is not typical in the US.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Almost universally. It's so common as to border on being a law. "Giving your notice" refers to two weeks of warning. It's ridiculous because employers never give the same notice, it's a "social custom" designed to punish employees and reward employers and people have gone along with it to the point of it being essentially required. If you fail to do it, your employer will give you a bad reference and simply say you didn't give notice and makes it hard to get hired somewhere else. It's unspoken and just assumed, there are really no exceptions to it short of medical or emergency issues.
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@Harry-Lui said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Finish up all the documents that you don't already have.
Copy all documents and passwords into a flash drive.
Hand it to her and walk out.And only if all of this can be done in two weeks. If it takes more than that, too bad. Just make sure that they have the passwords.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
No state has a law requiring notice. It's not a law, it's a custom that is almost worse than a law because it is enforced capriciously and secretly.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
Wow. That must make succession planning a nightmare. I have to give 3 months notice, which is the norm in the UK.
Not really, since you have to have already planned for disasters like getting hit by a bus, there should be no need for a succession plan. How would your company handle you getting sick or something? Same thing, US companies are ready for that. So people quitting isn't a real fear to any functional company. It's not ideal, but not a serious risk.
Most US companies demand that you not even come into work for the last two weeks because you are no longer someone that they want to trust or invest in. In banking, for example, you are generally done (but paid) from the moment you give notice. You give notice and security escorts you to your desk to clean it out and to the door to go home, that's it. You don't get one minute at your computer again.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
No state has a law requiring notice. It's not a law, it's a custom that is almost worse than a law because it is enforced capriciously and secretly.
Like tipping.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
It's in my contract, so if I don't serve notice then I'm in breach of contract and could be sued for damages. No jail time though
Normal job. Private sector.
That can happen in the US but only if you are an executive and make an absurd amount of money to the point that they assume that by being so rich that employee rights laws aren't needed to protect you.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
Wow. That must make succession planning a nightmare. I have to give 3 months notice, which is the norm in the UK.
Not really, since you have to have already planned for disasters like getting hit by a bus, there should be no need for a succession plan. How would your company handle you getting sick or something? Same thing, US companies are ready for that. So people quitting isn't a real fear to any functional company. It's not ideal, but not a serious risk.
Most US companies demand that you not even come into work for the last two weeks because you are no longer someone that they want to trust or invest in. In banking, for example, you are generally done (but paid) from the moment you give notice. You give notice and security escorts you to your desk to clean it out and to the door to go home, that's it. You don't get one minute at your computer again.
Most of the time you have a 1 - 3 month notice in the UK. But often if you ask you'll be allowed to go early, and if not, you can just leave early anyway and cut ties - just expect some sort of ramifications. Its in the contract but wont really matter if met.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Of course the company could still fire them, and I have no clue if the courts would make the employee pay back the training if they quit before X time.
No, you don't owe anything when being fired. It's a contract breach from the employer, unless you were fired for like stealing or something.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
Wow. That must make succession planning a nightmare. I have to give 3 months notice, which is the norm in the UK.
Not really, since you have to have already planned for disasters like getting hit by a bus, there should be no need for a succession plan. How would your company handle you getting sick or something? Same thing, US companies are ready for that. So people quitting isn't a real fear to any functional company. It's not ideal, but not a serious risk.
Most US companies demand that you not even come into work for the last two weeks because you are no longer someone that they want to trust or invest in. In banking, for example, you are generally done (but paid) from the moment you give notice. You give notice and security escorts you to your desk to clean it out and to the door to go home, that's it. You don't get one minute at your computer again.
It's amazing how many times this hasn't been true for me - like everyone of them.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy Now let's talk about 3 months. How many employers are going to be willing to wait 3 months for you to become free from your last job? Perhaps the 'demand' for 3 months notice is so prevalent there that most companies realize they have no choice. That could be said for our 2 week notice here in the US - i.e. a hiring company in the US generally expect a person to not be available for at least 2 weeks after accepting an offer because they will give 2 weeks notice to their current employer.
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
In high end jobs, they all do this. At McDonald's, they won't. Once you are in high ranks, this is normal, because transitions are so hard. So like in the finance sector, waiting months to get someone is the norm. You don't just have the old job to deal with, but the hiring process often takes 3-6 months, then they normally need to relocate, etc. It's a huge investment in time and money for all parties.
Now for normal rank and file staff, the US would never function this way. And it is one of the many reasons that the US manages to stay as rich as it does, we make "the ability to hire and work" so much better than most countries. We have a lot of faults, but our employment system is one of the best for both sides of the table. It's way easier to find work, way easier to keep work, way easier to hire people.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
A bit, perhaps. But it works both ways. If they want to get rid of me, they also have to give me 3 months notice, which gives me plenty of time to find another job.
Yes, there are good and bad parts and it is good that the rights are equal. In the US, it's one sided. Technically, by law, there is zero notice from either side. By custom, there is two weeks notice from the employee. That's what is unfair, is the extreme one-sided nature, but at least it is only two weeks.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
A bit, perhaps. But it works both ways. If they want to get rid of me, they also have to give me 3 months notice, which gives me plenty of time to find another job.
WHAT? they can't just fire you? A layoff, I suppose I could understand the 3 months... but they can't fire you either? or am I over reading that?
We aren't talking about people stealing stuff or stabbing their boss. Of course they can fire anyone that they are prosecuting for crimes.
