VM Suggestions? Best Practice?



  • I've recently Pitched the Idea to my boss to start using VM's to recreate issues and work on fixes for Terminals and back end software, Regardless that he shut it down without much thought, I want to look into it at home so i can play with Things, and test out a few theories without using a live site ( Our vendor uses Vm's to test our issues that we send in, and gives us fixes based on what they do in the VM, My thought, Why not do the same ? could we resolve issues without need to send to the Vendor?)

    So...
    What is a good VM software out there?
    What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
    Looking for opensourced if possible. Looking for Free and Simple (thanks @DustinB3403 )

    What's best practice for Vm's in troubleshooting? ( i have a feeling that's not what they are intended to be used for but in this case i would turn it into a personal lab with different software to resolve issues for the clients probably at home or on my laptop. Once my new One gets in, of course. )



  • If you are looking at open source there are only two real considerations. KVM or XCP-np.

    XCP-ng works really well when combined with XenOrchestra

    With KVM you'd use Virt-Manager and maybe Cockpit as an interface to that.



  • @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?



  • Both are Type 1 Hypervisors meaning they get installed to the bare-metal. You don't have Windows or Fedora sitting at the bottom and then something like VirtualBox to create VM's with.

    Meaning you need to have a means of accessing and creating VMs. Which is where XenOrchestra or Virt-Manager would come in and act as the interface to the Hypervisor to create your VMs.



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.



  • @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.

    i guess, what's the difference between type 1 and type 2?
    I'm looking for a way to test ongoing issues / learn set up routine on a new software that we are going to be getting soon .



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.

    i guess, what's the difference between type 1 and type 2?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor Read type 1 and type 2 to learn the difference.

    I'm looking for a way to test ongoing issues / learn set up routine on a new software that we are going to be getting soon .



  • @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.

    i guess, what's the difference between type 1 and type 2?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor Read type 1 and type 2 to learn the difference.

    I'm looking for a way to test ongoing issues / learn set up routine on a new software that we are going to be getting soon .

    I'd be looking more for a type 2 Hypervisor in this case , Dustin.



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.

    i guess, what's the difference between type 1 and type 2?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor Read type 1 and type 2 to learn the difference.

    I'm looking for a way to test ongoing issues / learn set up routine on a new software that we are going to be getting soon .

    I'd be looking more for a type 2 Hypervisor in this case , Dustin.

    And is open source a requirement or is free and simple a requirement? IE not needing something like AD to effectively setup and manage the system. But just an application either on the hypervisor or your Windows system to remotely manage the hypervisor.



  • @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.

    i guess, what's the difference between type 1 and type 2?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor Read type 1 and type 2 to learn the difference.

    I'm looking for a way to test ongoing issues / learn set up routine on a new software that we are going to be getting soon .

    I'd be looking more for a type 2 Hypervisor in this case , Dustin.

    And is open source a requirement or is free and simple a requirement? IE not needing something like AD to effectively setup and manage the system. But just an application either on the hypervisor or your Windows system to remotely manage the hypervisor.

    Free and Simple. i got the 2 confused in the OP - Something I can install as an application on the Windows system I am running - and be able to connect to virtual machines.



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.

    i guess, what's the difference between type 1 and type 2?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor Read type 1 and type 2 to learn the difference.

    I'm looking for a way to test ongoing issues / learn set up routine on a new software that we are going to be getting soon .

    I'd be looking more for a type 2 Hypervisor in this case , Dustin.

    And is open source a requirement or is free and simple a requirement? IE not needing something like AD to effectively setup and manage the system. But just an application either on the hypervisor or your Windows system to remotely manage the hypervisor.

    Free and Simple. i got the 2 confused in the OP - Something I can install as an application on the Windows system I am running - and be able to connect to virtual machines.

    So you want a Type 2 Hypervisor not a Type 1 Hypervisor.

    Use VirtualBox.



  • @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Are you looking for a Type 1 hypervisor or a Two 2 hypervisor? You could use Hyper-V, but it's not open source. It is free though.

    i guess, what's the difference between type 1 and type 2?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor Read type 1 and type 2 to learn the difference.

    I'm looking for a way to test ongoing issues / learn set up routine on a new software that we are going to be getting soon .

    I'd be looking more for a type 2 Hypervisor in this case , Dustin.

    And is open source a requirement or is free and simple a requirement? IE not needing something like AD to effectively setup and manage the system. But just an application either on the hypervisor or your Windows system to remotely manage the hypervisor.

    Free and Simple. i got the 2 confused in the OP - Something I can install as an application on the Windows system I am running - and be able to connect to virtual machines.

    So you want a Type 2 Hypervisor not a Type 1 Hypervisor.

    Use VirtualBox.

    I'll give it another try on my Laptop (getting a new one supposed to be delivered tonight)

    You mean oracle VirtualBox correct?



  • @WrCombs yes.

    If you had a desktop or server (lab) I'd recommend a Type 1 Hypervisor as Type 2 aren't really the kind of system you'd want to use for long term systems.

    But as described and reiterated via your previous post Vbox would be the better option here.



  • @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs yes.

    If you had a desktop or server (lab) I'd recommend a Type 1 Hypervisor as Type 2 aren't really the kind of system you'd want to use for long term systems.

    But as described and reiterated via your previous post Vbox would be the better option here.

    Awesome. Thanks !



  • You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.

    You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.

    You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.

    The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.



  • @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.

    This is my laptop - Not a work laptop.
    This is for personal as well as business reasons.

    (that way they dont have a say in what I do on my Laptop )



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    I've recently Pitched the Idea to my boss to start using VM's to recreate issues and work on fixes for Terminals and back end software, Regardless that he shut it down without much thought, I want to look into it at home so i can play with Things, and test out a few theories without using a live site ( Our vendor uses Vm's to test our issues that we send in, and gives us fixes based on what they do in the VM, My thought, Why not do the same ? could we resolve issues without need to send to the Vendor?)

    So...
    What is a good VM software out there?
    What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
    Looking for opensourced if possible. Looking for Free and Simple (thanks @DustinB3403 )

    What's best practice for Vm's in troubleshooting? ( i have a feeling that's not what they are intended to be used for but in this case i would turn it into a personal lab with different software to resolve issues for the clients probably at home or on my laptop. Once my new One gets in, of course. )

    See - now in reading this, I think @scottalanmiller would say your office is not a professional one, as a professional one rarely needs to reach outside of itself to get support for things they support. Though I might be oversimplifying that.

    On one hand I can see a possible thinking on the part of your boss. He pays for support of that software that he provides his clients. If the cost of that support is less than paying you (and the other employees) a higher wage (because you are more educated) AND the time you spend working on these problems, then ultimately the boss makes more money just having support handle the troubleshooting. But that's likely a fine line. Because you're still being paid to at least do level one troubleshooting. And we don't know how much bench time you have where you're being paid, but not making money for the company.



  • @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.

    You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.

    You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.

    The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.

    so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .

    Sweet.



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.

    This is my laptop - Not a work laptop.
    This is for personal as well as business reasons.

    (that way they dont have a say in what I do on my Laptop )

    In that case - Learn what you can, as fast as you can, then GTFO! The boss clearly doesn't actually desire smarter employees - he's pushing everything off on his support contracts - while that might be a good business decision, it's not good for you as an individual.



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.

    What kind of problems?

    VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.

    KVM is really good for this.



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.

    You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.

    You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.

    The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.

    so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .

    Sweet.

    yes - Hyper-V on Windows 10 is super simple to use. Unlike it's server cousin - huge PITA if you don't have an AD in place.



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.

    You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.

    You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.

    The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.

    so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .

    Sweet.

    Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.

    While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.

    Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.



  • @scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    KVM is really good for this.

    Can you get local console access with KVM?

    I'm guessing yes - you install a GUI into say, Fedora, setup KVM - and use the Cockpit to manage the local KVM?



  • @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    KVM is really good for this.

    Can you get local console access with KVM?

    I'm guessing yes - you install a GUI into say, Fedora, setup KVM - and use the Cockpit to manage the local KVM?

    Yeah. . . and you'd use Virt-Manager to create your VMs or the command line.



  • @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    I've recently Pitched the Idea to my boss to start using VM's to recreate issues and work on fixes for Terminals and back end software, Regardless that he shut it down without much thought, I want to look into it at home so i can play with Things, and test out a few theories without using a live site ( Our vendor uses Vm's to test our issues that we send in, and gives us fixes based on what they do in the VM, My thought, Why not do the same ? could we resolve issues without need to send to the Vendor?)

    So...
    What is a good VM software out there?
    What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.
    Looking for opensourced if possible. Looking for Free and Simple (thanks @DustinB3403 )

    What's best practice for Vm's in troubleshooting? ( i have a feeling that's not what they are intended to be used for but in this case i would turn it into a personal lab with different software to resolve issues for the clients probably at home or on my laptop. Once my new One gets in, of course. )

    See - now in reading this, I think @scottalanmiller would say your office is not a professional one, as a professional one rarely needs to reach outside of itself to get support for things they support. Though I might be oversimplifying that.

    On one hand I can see a possible thinking on the part of your boss. He pays for support of that software that he provides his clients. If the cost of that support is less than paying you (and the other employees) a higher wage (because you are more educated) AND the time you spend working on these problems, then ultimately the boss makes more money just having support handle the troubleshooting. But that's likely a fine line. Because you're still being paid to at least do level one troubleshooting. And we don't know how much bench time you have where you're being paid, but not making money for the company.

    Well - we are a reseller office. So from that standpoint, I'd agree. Because there are alot of hosted solutions (giftcards, loyalty, etc) that the vendor controls, SO We rely on them for a lot of issues..



  • @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.

    You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.

    You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.

    The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.

    so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .

    Sweet.

    Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.

    While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.

    Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.

    Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.



  • @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @Dashrender said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    You mentioned you're using Windows on the desktop - use Hyper-V in Windows 10 Pro. Hopefully your boss didn't cheap out and get you a laptop with Windows 10 Home on it.

    You also likely want at least 16 GB of RAM so you make sure you have plenty to share between your VMs and the main Windows 10 host OS.

    You can download the trial version of Windows 10 and Windows Server to setup a lab environment in your VM setup on your machine.

    The other issue you're likely to run into today is disk space. Windows 10 like 40+ GB of space, so your base(host) OS will need a min of 40 GB, and each new VM will likely want that much as well. I'd see about getting a 512 GB SSD in your new laptop if possible - you could even replace whatever it comes with an aftermarket drive if needed, they are getting pretty cheap now.

    so upgrade Ram - get a Larger SSD and set up Hyper-v to run Vm's .

    Sweet.

    Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor. It creates what is essentially a Dom0 out of what is presumably Windows 10.

    While this will work I would avoid it if at all possible and if you are wanting a Type 1 instead of a Type 2 as has been recommended by @Dashrender use KVM from a Fedora desktop instead of Windows.

    Smaller footprinter, less resources consumed and the same end result.

    Not exactly the same result - he has to learn the linux tools while also learning the KVM tools.. but meh.. it's definitely an option.

    He clearly has a lot of learning to do in any case. We're starting with the differences between a Type 1 and Type 2. . .



  • @scottalanmiller said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    What is everybody using? I've used Orcale VirtualBox in the past but had so many problems with it.

    What kind of problems?

    VBox is the most popular for this kind of thing, especially if you are using Windows Home where Hyper-V isn't available in a "local console" style that you would want.

    KVM is really good for this.

    Last time I used it, It wouldnt run properly, wouldn't update. I havent used it in a while.



  • The end result that @WrCombs is looking for is to create VM's on this laptop to test and troubleshoot issues that are being experienced in the field.

    What would be the ways to do this?

    VirtualBox is one
    KVM is another
    Hyper-V is another

    What are the benefits to each?



  • @WrCombs said in VM Suggestions? Best Practice?:

    @DustinB3403 I'll have to look into that.
    We use Windows - would that effect your answer?

    Your "runs ON Windows choices" are VirtualBox (free) and Vmware (not free.) That's it.

    If you have Windows Pro, then you can use Windows ON Hyper-V. But otherwise, you can't. Windows is severely limiting here.