Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account
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Your also missing that MS sells Windows as one kind of product and ChromeOS is sold as another. Windows is supposed to be a general purpose business OS (okay, they dropped business, they just push it as an entertainment OS now.) ChromeOS is meant to be a mobile platform similar to Android or iOS. Different use cases with Google giving extremely clear messaging about how it is supposed to work. Windows, however, is based on confused, deceipt, and social engineering.
You can't compare the two. Totally different in how they approach end users.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
"Force" ?
Uh, no. No one has to open their wallet to anyone.
If there is value in what Microsoft may be advertising or suggesting once the user logs in then all the power to them. The user opens their wallet and voluntarily pays.
OneDrive personal is free and comes with a built-in encrypted vault now. They bumped the default storage up to 100GB or 75GB which is more than enough for folks to back up their critical stuff.
Most folks will pay the $9 or whatever per month for O365 and get that integration too. Then their OneDrive hits 1TB and they get Microsoft Office.
G00g is crap. Plain and simple. No competition with Microsoft Office and O365. None.
We're working with a number of clients that have the full O365 Single Sign-On (SSO) setup in place and it's sweet. Multi Factor Authentication makes it even better with an app instead of a text. They've got a good thing going there.
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@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
G00g is crap. Plain and simple. No competition with Microsoft Office and O365. None.
I'd agree that Google's product line is crap. But it's actually pretty competitive with O365. Very much so. Both are generally awful. But MS does try to force. They use extremely confusing tactics and make end users think that payment is required.
I've had them literally force products onto my desktop while I was watching. Force is absolutely a correct word.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
G00g is crap. Plain and simple. No competition with Microsoft Office and O365. None.
I'd agree that Google's product line is crap. But it's actually pretty competitive with O365. Very much so. Both are generally awful. But MS does try to force. They use extremely confusing tactics and make end users think that payment is required.
I've had them literally force products onto my desktop while I was watching. Force is absolutely a correct word.
We have worked with companies that could not run their Excel spreadsheets in the G00g's version. It was just too painful. There's lots of advanced features businesses use in Excel that are not there in the other offerings including Open Source.
There are enough examples out there, I can't remember the German city's name that comes to mind, that have tried really, really hard to shuck Microsoft. They came back. It was just too painful to try and make a run at it.
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@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
We have worked with companies that could not run their Excel spreadsheets in the G00g's version. It was just too painful.
Yes, of course. But that's also a company using Microsoft already, and one very specific MS product that they need.
If they started without Excel, likely they'd have no issue. Maybe they are the rare duck where Excel is the right product, that's fine. MS makes good tools sometimes, Excel is certainly towards the top of their list.
But it's not much of a comparison. You never talk about people with crazy complicated Calc files and how Excel can't handle it. The same problems certainly exist, just absolutely no one wants to move TO Excel, only away from it. So it creates this false sense of one way support.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
G00g is crap. Plain and simple. No competition with Microsoft Office and O365. None.
I'd agree that Google's product line is crap. But it's actually pretty competitive with O365. Very much so. Both are generally awful. But MS does try to force. They use extremely confusing tactics and make end users think that payment is required.
I've had them literally force products onto my desktop while I was watching. Force is absolutely a correct word.
In what situation? Where you had O365 installed, and they pushed out Teams? yeah OK that was forced.
Do you have another example?Sure they put ads in the startbar for games and crap.. but they aren't actually installed until you click them, this is no different than anything else with PC's purchased with Windows on it for decades - only it was the OEMs doing it.
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@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
There are enough examples out there, I can't remember the German city's name that comes to mind, that have tried really, really hard to shuck Microsoft. They came back. It was just too painful to try and make a run at it.
Munich, and actually they loved it. moved back from politics, not problems.
As a company that doesn't use MS Office, I can tell you, there are very, very few times that anyone uses those products out of a technical need. It's always a political one.
And even Zoho works better than Office Online.
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
Do you have another example?
Many, many video games.
OneDrive.
Teams.
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
Sure they put ads in the startbar for games and crap..
No, not just ads. That's really bad. I mean REALLY bad. But not the issue. Actually installing new games to replace other ones being removed as people clean them up!
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
, this is no different than anything else with PC's purchased with Windows on it for decades - only it was the OEMs doing it.
Totally different in every way.
How do you even relate them?
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
Do you have another example?
Many, many video games.
OneDrive.
Teams.
One drive is built in - the 'force' as you might call it is an update for it.
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
Do you have another example?
Many, many video games.
OneDrive.
Teams.
One drive is built in - the 'force' as you might call it is an update for it.
Once removed, it should not be FORCED back. Forced is forced. Updates that now only install, but force apps to run, is FORCED.
You are grasping at straws to try to justify borderline illegal behavior.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
Then you would say the same towards Ubuntu if you install Ubuntu Desktop with the normal installation that includes Amazon. Now there is an option to install with minimal install that doesn't include that.
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@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
Do you have another example?
Many, many video games.
OneDrive.
Teams.
One drive is built in - the 'force' as you might call it is an update for it.
Once removed, it should not be FORCED back. Forced is forced. Updates that now only install, but force apps to run, is FORCED.
You are grasping at straws to try to justify borderline illegal behavior.
You've fully removed it and it came back? OK, I'll give you forced in that situation.
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@PhlipElder said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
There are enough examples out there
There are countless examples of giant companies using other things than MS Office, too. A lot of the Fortune 10 do not, for example. IBM, Apple, Oracle...all run on non-Windows products.
And the last that we knew, Munich didn't roll back. They voted to, without IT input, for reasons that the politicians didn't understand. They also didn't run normal Linux but went with making their own OS. Their issues are that they are just crazy. If that's the big example of open source failing, that's a huge statement.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/04/munich_linux_costs_ownership/
At this point the cost and complexity of rolling back is staggering and has a good chance of failing.
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@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
Do you have another example?
Many, many video games.
OneDrive.
Teams.
One drive is built in - the 'force' as you might call it is an update for it.
Once removed, it should not be FORCED back. Forced is forced. Updates that now only install, but force apps to run, is FORCED.
You are grasping at straws to try to justify borderline illegal behavior.
You've fully removed it and it came back? OK, I'll give you forced in that situation.
Yes, hence the use of the term force.
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@black3dynamite said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@scottalanmiller said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
@Dashrender said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
protect them from what?
Predatory sales tactics. Microsoft is trying to force more services on them.
Then you would say the same towards Ubuntu if you install Ubuntu Desktop with the normal installation that includes Amazon. Now there is an option to install with minimal install that doesn't include that.
If Windows made these things optional like Ubuntu, it would be great that they include them as an option. But they don't. It's not comparable.
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Default installation of Windows 10 Education has a clean start menu. Too bad home and professional doesn't.
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Clean install of 1903 Pro did last time I did it. I was shocked.
I didn't document. so I want to do it again to verify.
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@JaredBusch said in Installing Windows 10 without a Microcoft account:
Clean install of 1903 Pro did last time I did it. I was shocked.
I didn't document. so I want to do it again to verify.
Well shit - I just did a clean install of 1903 yesterday, and will be making a new golden image shortly.. I'll look at Pro as well.
