Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
Yes.
No. You make snapshots and such. but then have to export and move and copy to make them a "backup"
Yes, you are correct, this I didn't mention.
But this is still doable through the command line.
That is not what was asked or stated. You are adding.
So yes - backups can be done - but it's a huge PITA using those native tools.
got it. -
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
Why would you guess that it would be bad?
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
It was never an issue as the backups were completed after the office had closed for the evening. But they took less than an hour to complete. Total.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
umm like how? Snap's don't do anything to the disk after the initial writes to create the new snap files. Then it is just read of the snap to the target. This is zero different than every hypervisor backup mechanism ever.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
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@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
right above where it shows login
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
right baove where it shows loginaww - it does not say - GO TO...
But it does say
webconsole: https://localhost:9090/
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Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.
I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.
I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.
Well my KVM host only shows localhost on the console screen, but when I SSH into it, I see the names. which is weird.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
right baove where it shows loginaww - it does not say - GO TO...
But it does say
webconsole: https://localhost:9090/
No one has ever said you didn't have to think or learn nothing to use KVM. Just that it is easy by comparison.
Compared to Hyper-V this is much simpler. Debatable on how much easier than VMWare as I have not installed it in years now.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only if you installed Fedora Server Edition.
Well it's for a server
It is not there by default if you choose a minimal install. But that was not the point of this post.
I have to dig more into this - by simply choosing the option Scott pointed out - I now have a machine that's logged in - but no clue what to do next? in XS or VMWare or Hyper-V I'd be presented with a graphical display telling me to download something from some IP address (well OK not Hyper-V), and install XC or VMWare whatever it's called - or I think starting with 6.5 visit the webpage built into the hypervisor now, etc... but with KVM - nope, just a fedora prompt and me now going to search for 'what next'.
When it finally rebooted, the console should tell you to go to https://ip.add.ress:9090
right baove where it shows loginaww - it does not say - GO TO...
But it does say
webconsole: https://localhost:9090/
No one has ever said you didn't have to think or learn nothing to use KVM. Just that it is easy by comparison.
Compared to Hyper-V this is much simpler. Debatable on how much easier than VMWare as I have not installed it in years now.
OK it was braindead'ish easy to install and get to the console. Though - something a bit more in your face about the web console like XS would be nice.
As for what options to choose to get a KVM host - Scott's example above works fine, even from a Netinstall ISO - choose Fedora Server > Headless Virtualization (only selected option)
and you end up with something. I don't have time now to play with it, but I will tomorrow. -
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Thanks I glossed over the Web console bit.
I'm assuming you added the host name during install which is why it's there in your listing? I didn't do that, so I have the default.
We tend to, because it is part of setting up the static networking, which you often do with hypervisors. not always, of course, but it is common.
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Glad to see you stopped being such a die hard Xen fan
I remember you fighting tooth and nail against KVM on spice forums. -
@dyasny said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Glad to see you stopped being such a die hard Xen fan
I remember you fighting tooth and nail against KVM on spice forums.Not so much a fan, as choosing the best products at the best time. Xen was superior for a long time. KVM had a lot of deficiencies. KVM has pulled ahead in a lot of ways. I don't choose or promote products because I like them, I do so because I believe that they are fitting the specific need best.
That means, that naturally, as the products change over time their place in the universe changes. And nothing is for everyone. Xen still remains a viable player, KVM just makes sense for more shops, more of the time.
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@scottalanmiller my guess is, when Amazon started running KVM (as was expected when they hired Anthony Liguori), that was the last straw for you, because your main argument against KVM has always been "but Amazon..."
But nevermind me, I'm just having fun here. Been riding the KVM train since before it was generally heard of after all
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@dyasny said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller my guess is, when Amazon started running KVM (as was expected when they hired Anthony Liguori), that was the last straw for you, because your main argument against KVM has always been "but Amazon..."
But nevermind me, I'm just having fun here. Been riding the KVM train since before it was generally heard of after all
Amazon still uses both, even now, actually. But that was a factor, to be sure. Amazon's drop in investment meant that Xen had way less future than before. And Citrix serious tried to burn it down, which really sucked. And getting the Xen community to do XCP-NG took a year longer than it should have, so the opportunity wasn't as ripe. And KVM just pulled ahead in a lot of ways, the Linux vendors all adopting it so heavily was a big factor.
XO did a lot to keep Xen on the table, and it is still very viable and good today because of that. And it still might make a comeback. But the lack of serious development around full PV, and the incredible rise of LXD has made Xen's space less viable.
