Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?
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@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
I bet the traditional thin client market is all but gone. The cost just doesn't make sense any longer. Given that alternatives are so common, so cheap, and so good, what use case remains for dedicated thin client branded hardware today?
While I agree we are seeing ChromeOS become a common thin client (it supports Horizon BTW) a few things in defense of the old brick...
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Environmental. Some of the thin clients are designed to withstand crazy temperature, shock, dust etc. Throw in that they also are often ARM-based in leads into...
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Low Power and weight. Every pound I put on an oil rig, needs 7 pounds of metal to float it. Go over 55 pounds and now fly something on a helicopter and need a boat. Weight above xxx requires another 2 man case for the marines, or can't fit in an overhead bin on a plane. There are MASSIVE niche markets where logistics of power and weight matter
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Supply chain. Can I get a replacement in Kenya in under 4 hours? What about Bowerston OH in 2 hours? Shelf spares work for some, but having a spare PLUS a technician who will sort the migration of xxx matter to others.
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Lifecycle tooling. Terradichi exists not because of PCoIP but because of their stateless Zero Clients ability to be destroyed and require ZERO effort to get full firmware etc upgraded to where it was before. As firmware security gaps become a bigger deal the lack of out of band lifecycle on a lot of IoT devices on ARM turn them from cheap to a nightmare. Aramco and other nation-state attack targets don't give a flying fuck about capital cost if it becomes the source of the next threat vector.
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Compliance. A Wyse Thin client has passed xxx,yyy,zzz compliance requirements. They may be stupid tests that show if a child licks it, they don't die, or if it lights on fire it doesn't produce toxic smoke, but they sent them to a lab and spent the money.
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Weird device redirection support as part of a certified end to end solution. Healthcare doesn't have the staff to verify workarounds, or 3rd party vendors like Impreveada may not certify your cheaper solution. A hospital who's spent a 9 figure some deploying EPIC and Cache doesn't give a shit about saving $50 on a thin client if they don't know up front "it's just going to work and my vendors will not complain".
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Some thin client vendors will offer 10 years of support. Just like HDS VSP's, there is a market for people who don't have to replace everything in 3 years.
Not every company see's economic value in becoming an integrator.
I agree Chromebooks are a rising force in end-user computing (Google was a major sponsor at VMworld the past few years for this reason). ARM is powerful (I'm installing it on my PI3 this weekend). That said, VDI and thin clients are neither dying anytime soon, nor are they the future of End-user computing. I'd encourage you to watch Brian Madden's "is VDI Dead" session. -
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@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
- Supply chain. Can I get a replacement in Kenya in under 4 hours? What about Bowerston OH in 2 hours? Shelf spares work for some, but having a spare PLUS a technician who will sort the migration of xxx matter to others.
I think Chromebooks have the best global supply chain at this point. If I need something in Kenya in four hours, Chromebook is exactly where I would want to be.
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@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
That said, VDI and thin clients are neither dying anytime soon, nor are they the future of End-user computing.
VDI isn't dying. Chromebooks just seem like the best physical solution for delivering it at the end point. Along with loads of other solutions.
The question is only why would you use an expensive, under powered, "pure" thin client when normal computers now do a better job at all of that stuff?
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Dell WYSE terminals are alive and well where Iām at.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Chromebooks just seem like the best physical solution for delivering it at the endpoint
Unless I need redirection capabilities that ChromeOS can't do.
Need serial redirection for a cheque reader?
Need WAN-efficient printer or scanner redirection that's seamless and can be managed by GPO to devices and work with EXISTING devices that are required for xxx compliance?I LOVE Chromebooks as end devices. Sadly they don't work everywhere yet...
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@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Chromebooks just seem like the best physical solution for delivering it at the endpoint
Unless I need redirection capabilities that ChromeOS can't do.
Need serial redirection for a cheque reader?
Need WAN-efficient printer or scanner redirection that's seamless and can be managed by GPO to devices and work with EXISTING devices that are required for xxx compliance?I LOVE Chromebooks as end devices. Sadly they don't work everywhere yet...
Why can't they do those things? Things are all functions of the thin client software, not of the OS.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
That said, VDI and thin clients are neither dying anytime soon, nor are they the future of End-user computing.
VDI isn't dying. Chromebooks just seem like the best physical solution for delivering it at the end point. Along with loads of other solutions.
The question is only why would you use an expensive, under powered, "pure" thin client when normal computers now do a better job at all of that stuff?
When did they ever not do a better job though? that's my question. I've run them side by side since the early 2000's, a full desktop was always way better. Granted required one to lock it down.
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@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Chromebooks just seem like the best physical solution for delivering it at the endpoint
Unless I need redirection capabilities that ChromeOS can't do.
Need serial redirection for a cheque reader?
Need WAN-efficient printer or scanner redirection that's seamless and can be managed by GPO to devices and work with EXISTING devices that are required for xxx compliance?I LOVE Chromebooks as end devices. Sadly they don't work everywhere yet...
Why are you locked to GPO? Why can't another management solution be used?
When you have existing solutions - well - you're just boned.
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@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
That said, VDI and thin clients are neither dying anytime soon, nor are they the future of End-user computing.
VDI isn't dying. Chromebooks just seem like the best physical solution for delivering it at the end point. Along with loads of other solutions.
The question is only why would you use an expensive, under powered, "pure" thin client when normal computers now do a better job at all of that stuff?
When did they ever not do a better job though? that's my question. I've run them side by side since the early 2000's, a full desktop was always way better. Granted required one to lock it down.
That's not really true. Fat clients used to be more costly, have shorter life spans, were harder to manage. All that stuff has only recently changed. Your idea of "better" is incredibly subjective, it doesn't address "cost" which is the primarily definition of "better" to a business.
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Ugh, I put thin clients out there with e-Machines PCs.
We decided years ago to avoid them and stick with the smallest form factor PC would could deploy Windows Pro on. It's paid off well. No driver headaches, no print issues, dual display is plugging in a second cable and monitor, and security can be hardened via Group Policy.
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@PhlipElder said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Ugh, I put thin clients out there with e-Machines PCs.
We decided years ago to avoid them and stick with the smallest form factor PC would could deploy Windows Pro on. It's paid off well. No driver headaches, no print issues, dual display is plugging in a second cable and monitor, and security can be hardened via Group Policy.
We are using NX for our VDI right now, which has been good for the use case that we have.
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@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Why are you locked to GPO? Why can't another management solution be used?
Because plenty of people have other applications and platforms that for AAA use AD and don't support other LDAP/Kerberos systems so given how cheap per user a CAL is they say "screw it" and use AD to distribute GPO (note GPO isn't tied to AD it's just commonly viewed that way).
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@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Why are you locked to GPO? Why can't another management solution be used?
Because plenty of people have other applications and platforms that for AAA use AD and don't support other LDAP/Kerberos systems so given how cheap per user a CAL is they say "screw it" and use AD to distribute GPO (note GPO isn't tied to AD it's just commonly viewed that way).
Wouldn't that affect the other side of the VDI, though, not the client side?
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@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Why are you locked to GPO? Why can't another management solution be used?
Because plenty of people have other applications and platforms that for AAA use AD and don't support other LDAP/Kerberos systems so given how cheap per user a CAL is they say "screw it" and use AD to distribute GPO (note GPO isn't tied to AD it's just commonly viewed that way).
Wouldn't that affect the other side of the VDI, though, not the client side?
Couldn't it do both?
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@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Why are you locked to GPO? Why can't another management solution be used?
Because plenty of people have other applications and platforms that for AAA use AD and don't support other LDAP/Kerberos systems so given how cheap per user a CAL is they say "screw it" and use AD to distribute GPO (note GPO isn't tied to AD it's just commonly viewed that way).
Wouldn't that affect the other side of the VDI, though, not the client side?
Couldn't it do both?
Maybe, I mean you CAN control thin clients with GPO, but not normal thin clients.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Why are you locked to GPO? Why can't another management solution be used?
Because plenty of people have other applications and platforms that for AAA use AD and don't support other LDAP/Kerberos systems so given how cheap per user a CAL is they say "screw it" and use AD to distribute GPO (note GPO isn't tied to AD it's just commonly viewed that way).
Wouldn't that affect the other side of the VDI, though, not the client side?
Couldn't it do both?
Maybe, I mean you CAN control thin clients with GPO, but not normal thin clients.
Correct. The thin client itself I see managed by either thin client management tools (Terradichi) or by MDM API's.
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Thin client, absolutely. They are slow as fuck in most environments as they are just terrible hardware with an onboard OS that still needs to be patched. They are neither a stand-alone computer with full functionality, or a zero client with speed and security; they are the worst of both worlds.
Zero clients though, completely different story as that's a software-delivery discussion.
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@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@Dashrender said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
Why are you locked to GPO? Why can't another management solution be used?
Because plenty of people have other applications and platforms that for AAA use AD and don't support other LDAP/Kerberos systems so given how cheap per user a CAL is they say "screw it" and use AD to distribute GPO (note GPO isn't tied to AD it's just commonly viewed that way).
Wouldn't that affect the other side of the VDI, though, not the client side?
Couldn't it do both?
Maybe, I mean you CAN control thin clients with GPO, but not normal thin clients.
Correct. The thin client itself I see managed by either thin client management tools (
TerradichiTeradici) or by MDM API's.FTFY
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@bbigford said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
They are slow as fuck in most environments
Are they slow, or did someone underprovision the Shitrix environment behind it?
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@StorageNinja said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
@bbigford said in Is the Physical Thin Client Era Dead?:
They are slow as fuck in most environments
Are they slow, or did someone underprovision the Shitrix environment behind it?
the problem I've always had with thin clients was flash. Any app or webpage that used flash caused the whole screen to flash white between pages. Though this never happened on a typical PC - Even Windows XP with 1 GB RAM - it never flashed and worked well.
