Can we force drivers to install any more in Windows?



  • I have a DVD duplicator machine from Primera that is about 8 years old. The drivers they provide at the website claim support for Vista / 7 / 8 / 10, etc. They are dated November 2012. https://www.primera.com/bravo-pro-xi
    It comes with 32bit and 64bit versions.

    I've used this duplicator on a Windows 7 computer for years until the HDD died. I simply tried to install it onto another Windows 7 Pro computer but it absolutely will not install, I've tried so many things to get this to work.

    The primary problem is that there is a signing error:

    0_1540921534427_install error.png

    However, these drivers are in fact signed. If I dig into the cat file however, the only problem I can find is that the certificate is expired:

    0_1540921596788_cert.png

    When I used Microsoft's signtool.exe tool, it passes the basic test for PnP device installation signing requirements. Reference here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/devtest/signtool

    When I test for kernel mode code signing, it does fail, saying it "does not chain to a Microsoft Root Cert."

    I have tried 4 or 5 techniques to allow or force Windows to install the drivers anyway. I've used registry entry to ignore driver sign errors. I've used gpedit to change policy and allow install of unsigned drivers. I've restarted and used F8 menu to boot without driver sign verification. I've set Windows to "test mode" and allow such drivers, gpdedit.
    I've set policy to not let Windows attempt auto-install of drivers.
    I've tried to force both the 32bit and 64bit driver, all the same errors no matter which I try to use.

    The error in Device Manager is this:

    0_1540921959921_device manager.png

    All the tricks I find online seem to apply to Windows from years ago. I think some changes came with Win10 that MS decided to basically ignore all those policies and completely enforces not allowing drivers with signing issues, for Win 8 and 7 as well I think. Except that my driver is not unsigned, it's signed and has a valid cert, but the cert is expired, and it apparently doesn't chain to a MS root cert. So it's not like I'm trying to force an unsigned driver, just one with a couple signing issues I guess.
    And further, only the 64bit driver should be dealing with kernel mode issues, that shouldn't be a thing with the 32bit version.

    So the point is, no tricks to force the driver are working, and I think it has to do with Win7 updates within the last year. When it was originally installed on the first Win7 computer, all I had to do with click the typical box that pops up to "allow device installation anyway", which is a common thing IT folks have seen forever when dealing with older drivers. But Windows ain't doing that any more.

    If the only option to run this printer is install some old Win7 version and not update it, I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think I want to even bother trying to load this on a Win10 computer even though the driver says it will work on Win10.

    And I can't replace the machine that easily since they cost many thousands of dollars.

    I'm either completely screwed here, or there is still some way to load this driver that I haven't found yet. Or somehow inject the MS root cert into the chain (if that's the issue), or somehow renew the cert so it isn't expired (if that's the problem).

    So I'm done fighting this for the last 2 weeks. What am I missing?



  • Expired certificate means not signed.



  • For true unsigned drivers, booting into the F8 menu to allow unsigned install works fine for us with old USB to serial devices for forklifts.



  • Here is a person over at Toms that seems like they ran into same thing: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3730907/disable-driver-signature-enforcement-working-anymore.html
    No answers there however.

    If it's the expired cert, then I either need to remove the cert entirely, perhaps allowing force of "true" unsigned cert? Or I need to somehow reup the cert somehow, probably not possible I would guess.



  • In this thread, a commenter suggests that the expiration date for the certificate is not taken into consideration at all when Windows checks code signing.
    https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20569189/how-did-this-unsigned-driver-get-installed-on-windows-7-64-bit



  • What happens if you set system time to date before cert expiration and try to install it then?



  • @marcinozga said in Can we force drivers to install any more in Windows?:

    What happens if you set system time to date before cert expiration and try to install it then?

    Damn, I haven't done something like that for a long time.
    Had to do that because of an old medical program that our students were using.



  • Setting the date didn't do anything on the Win10 box I'm trying.

    In fact, Win10 didn't really report any problems as far as signing, it just popped up a box asking if I wanted to install the driver and I said yes.
    Then nothing happened. I checked Device Manager but still not loaded, I have a "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)" device.

    When I try to uninstall this, it comes back the same. When I try to update, it refuses to find the drivers I have, says no drivers exist or that Windows already chose the right driver.

    In fact, on the screen where I'm supposed to select the driver from a list (where the "Have Disk" button is), it actually says "This driver is digitally signed".

    But when I use Have Disk and go to the driver folder, it doesn't even attempt to show me it. It just says "The folder you specified doesn't contain a compatible software driver for your device."

    Keep in mind, the driver manufacturer specifically lists the driver as being Win 10 compatible. I'm assuming it doesn't see the driver because it's actually looking for the unknown usb device which is a Microsoft driver already loaded. In other words, even though it's an unknown device, MS has still loaded some kind of signed MS driver. Somehow the two aren't matching up.

    So now I can't get it working on Win7, nor Win10.

    I'm currently trying to set up a Win7 virtual machine with an older copy of 7.



  • @guyinpv I had similar issues with certain USB dongle, on Intel USB controllers, after upgrading to Windows 10. I had a PCIE USB controller lying around, non-Intel chip, and that allowed me to install drivers. If you have a spare controller, it's worth a try.



  • Installing using compatibility mode doesn't help too?



  • @marcinozga said in Can we force drivers to install any more in Windows?:

    @guyinpv I had similar issues with certain USB dongle, on Intel USB controllers, after upgrading to Windows 10. I had a PCIE USB controller lying around, non-Intel chip, and that allowed me to install drivers. If you have a spare controller, it's worth a try.

    It's not a controller, it's a dual DVD duplicator/printer device.

    On Win7 I cannot make it load anything past the driver signing error box. Absolutely nothing works.

    On Win10 it immediately loads a MS driver and calls it "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)". It won't let me change or update the driver in any way, it just instantly install that as soon as it scans for changes, even in safe mode.

    I even went so far as to rename the windows\inf folder so that it would have no drivers to search through, and it still loaded that default MS unknown driver!



  • Did you try the F8 option that JB mentioned?



  • @Dashrender said in Can we force drivers to install any more in Windows?:

    Did you try the F8 option that JB mentioned?

    Yes.
    From my research it seems that this is only for when you have truly unsigned drivers. In my case, they are signed but with an expired cert, although others have said this doesn't matter.

    To complicate matters more, I've now tried two other computers, and been on remote tech support with the company who remote-logged in to both Win7 and Win10 and got neither to work. He just said the USB is having communications errors and wants to send back the device for a $450 service repair.

    But I had a spare unit (our previous model) which itself was repaired and I kept it as a spare. But trying to install that, I'm getting all the same issues! Even though it uses a different drive for its own model.



  • @guyinpv said in Can we force drivers to install any more in Windows?:

    @marcinozga said in Can we force drivers to install any more in Windows?:

    @guyinpv I had similar issues with certain USB dongle, on Intel USB controllers, after upgrading to Windows 10. I had a PCIE USB controller lying around, non-Intel chip, and that allowed me to install drivers. If you have a spare controller, it's worth a try.

    It's not a controller, it's a dual DVD duplicator/printer device.

    I know that, but from your screenshots it looks like that duplicator is USB device. What I'm suggesting is connecting it to non-Intel USB controller.


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