HA With switches



  • So we will be getting some new hardware. Not sure what yet whether it's 3-2-1, HyperConverged, VSAN etc.

    But i'm looking at the core and edge switch, since i've never done HA with switches 🙂 i thought i would check my thoughts 😃

    So from the new stuff that will go into 2 new Core switches with Stacking Cable to give HA, these will handle our static routes for the MPLS and be 10G. From these they will spur off to two Edge Switches (possible Ubiquiti), but with a cable coming from each core, how do you configure the switches so they don't get loop backs? Is it STP i need to look into?



  • 0_1540542228524_HAsetup.png
    So from the core switches there will be a cable going to one switch in the same room (i.e. next rack) so copper 10G, the other is in another building so will be 10G fibre.



  • 0_1540542322651_HAsetupSPF.png
    So a close up on the Edge switch there will be 2 cables coming in. 1 from Core1 and 1 from Core2.

    Do i need to configure something special on the switch or will modern switches just know they are coming from switches that are stacked in HA mode?


  • Service Provider

    STP should definitely be in place.


  • Service Provider

    @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    Do i need to configure something special on the switch or will modern switches just know they are coming from switches that are stacked in HA mode?

    They still need to be trunked properly.



  • @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    STP should definitely be in place.

    Thanks for clearing that up 🙂 been looking so long at the diagrams and different switches my head hurts and thought i was going mad.



  • @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    Do i need to configure something special on the switch or will modern switches just know they are coming from switches that are stacked in HA mode?

    They still need to be trunked properly.

    OK more things to read up on to check both ends, once we decide what we are using both Core and Edge



  • @hobbit666 MLAG the switches don't stack them. If stacked and coordinator goes offline the stack is done.

    EDIT: Ubiquiti okay for SOHO/ROBO but not core and HA. BTDT not happy.



  • @PhlipElder advice on core switches?



  • @PhlipElder said in HA With switches:

    EDIT: Ubiquiti okay for SOHO/ROBO but not core and HA. BTDT not happy.

    Yeah the ubiquity are for edge building network (client PC) but will have 10g links to the core switches.

    I'm thinking Dell or Cisco for Core



  • @hobbit666 Ubiquiti has a 10GbE 16-Port switch as well. We would not use them for any kind of primary traffic whether server to server, aggregator, or TOR. Edge/Leaf(? not up on network terms) okay, but not really if VLANs are needed. Too much grief. BTDT



  • @Francesco-Provino What's in place now? If it works well then run with their updated products.

    We've run with NETGEAR and Mellanox for 10GbE and Mellanox for 25GbE+.

    The NETGEAR XS716T and up are nice because they don't require any infrastructure upgrades other than CAT6 preferable to endpoints. RJ45 = simple plug & play for most applications with SFP connectors for switch to switch.

    Mellanox for all of the SFP style connectors. A pair of MSX1012X 10GbE switches can be had for a very good price. Cost wise, a pair of NETGEAR XS716T switches + Intel X550T-2 NIC pair per server is about the same as a pair of MSX1012X 10GbE Mellanox switches with ConnectX-4 LX 10GbE NIC pairs per server. The benefit with the Mellanox setup is RoCE/RDMA while stepping up into Intel's iWARP capable NICs would push the cost up even further.



  • @PhlipElder don't know why but never thought Netgear as "Enterprise" grade gear. Yeah fine for a office or shop but not backbone.

    Since they are always mentioned I thought Ubiquiti but not sure they will give the required ports as they only have 2 10g SPF+ ports and I'll need 4 at the core.

    Have looked at Dell N4000 series but they seem ££££


  • Service Provider

    @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    @PhlipElder don't know why but never thought Netgear as "Enterprise" grade gear. Yeah fine for a office or shop but not backbone.

    It's some seriously good stuff. Maybe not Juniper good, but way above what most SMBs consider using.

    What are you considering enterprise that you feel is on par with Netgear?

    Netgear used to be Nortel and Bay Networks, they were one of the big enterprise players with Cisco and Juniper in the old days. Obviously they've famously blown Cisco away in quality, but I think we mostly agree with you that Cisco isn't enterprise in the majority of cases.

    Netgear always complains that because they made consumer gear too, that so many SMBs know them for that new product line and don't realize that they've been enterprise players for decades.

    Netgear is, or was last that I knew, the worlds top networking maker by ports shipped.


  • Service Provider

    @PhlipElder said in HA With switches:

    @Francesco-Provino What's in place now? If it works well then run with their updated products.

    We've run with NETGEAR and Mellanox for 10GbE and Mellanox for 25GbE+.

    Very good choices.



  • @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    Netgear always complains that because they made consumer gear too, that so many SMBs know them for that new product line and don't realize that they've been enterprise players for decades.
    .

    ^^this

    I've always used them in a SMB way and never really thought that way. My bad 😁

    Enterprise I've always considered Cisco,
    HPe

    To be honest I did look at some of the Netgear range and found some that I thought would fit the bill for Core.



  • @scottalanmiller and others.
    Where would you place Ubiquity stuff? In the SMB, Enterprise or somewhere in the middle?
    As mentioned I was going to use them coming off the core switches, or should I just stick with what I know. Netgear


  • Service Provider

    @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    Enterprise I've always considered Cisco,

    The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco does make some enterprise stuff, but only at $10K and higher. Cisco is, in general, about the farthest from enterprise you can get in the real world (other than actual Linksys, D-Link, etc.) Netgear and Ubiquiti, for example, specifically go after Cisco as being "always below them." Cisco gear under their top end ranges is some of the worst: slow, buggy, not efficient to configure. And Cisco's consumer stuff has been some of the absolute worst of the consumer stuff.

    If you think of Cisco as enterprise, wait till you work with the good stuff.

    At the very first SpiceCorps NYC, we were hosted by a networking lab and all of their gear was Netgear because it was literally the best that they could buy and Cisco literally couldn't meet their network needs. They had evaluated both, in place, with serious testing and Netgear and Cisco were the two most divergent products that they had used.


  • Service Provider

    @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    Where would you place Ubiquity stuff? In the SMB, Enterprise or somewhere in the middle?

    Well better than Cisco, certainly!

    UBNT's thing is really making enterprise gear with an SMB focus. Their stuff is designed heavily for SMB use, by way of just the physical features and sizes that they offer. But their quality and design is very enterprise.


  • Service Provider

    @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    As mentioned I was going to use them coming off the core switches, or should I just stick with what I know. Netgear

    As per their names, Ubiquiti really only focuses on Edge devices. Netgear makes amazing core stuff (and edge.) Netgear has a really broad line, too.


  • Service Provider

    @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco

    Dude, Cisco sold off Linksys in 2013. Pay attention.
    Cisco bought them in 2003.


  • Service Provider

    @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    As mentioned I was going to use them coming off the core switches, or should I just stick with what I know. Netgear

    As per their names, Ubiquiti really only focuses on Edge devices. Netgear makes amazing core stuff (and edge.) Netgear has a really broad line, too.

    I've dealt with too much bad Netgear. I know you always like them, but I've had crap luck with them over the years.

    Today, I would still use Ubiquiti for core.
    0_1540770479056_e614d4a3-c63d-4444-a297-755ce00caf9f-image.png


  • Service Provider

    @JaredBusch said in HA With switches:

    @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco

    Dude, Cisco sold off Linksys in 2013. Pay attention.
    Cisco bought them in 2003.

    As a brand, but they kept a lot of the products in their routing, switching, and VoIP lines. They sold the name, but they kept the products. So old Linksys is now Cisco proper.



  • @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    @PhlipElder don't know why but never thought Netgear as "Enterprise" grade gear. Yeah fine for a office or shop but not backbone.

    Since they are always mentioned I thought Ubiquiti but not sure they will give the required ports as they only have 2 10g SPF+ ports and I'll need 4 at the core.

    Have looked at Dell N4000 series but they seem ££££

    We've been running NETGEAR 10GbE in disaggregate cluster settings for five or six years now. For the most part, they've been rock solid. The only issue we've experienced with them is the need to flash firmware when switching a shared 10GbE RJ45/SFP+ port from one to the other.

    For the price, they are a great place to start.

    And again, no way we'd touch Ubiquiti for anything more than a managed switch.



  • @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    @JaredBusch said in HA With switches:

    @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco

    Dude, Cisco sold off Linksys in 2013. Pay attention.
    Cisco bought them in 2003.

    As a brand, but they kept a lot of the products in their routing, switching, and VoIP lines. They sold the name, but they kept the products. So old Linksys is now Cisco proper.

    The Cisco Small Business Pro series edge (NSA 510/520 series with and without WiFi) and their SG300/SG500 series switches were the result of the Linksys purchase engineering combination.

    We've deployed a lot of the SG500x series stackable switches with a few weird behaviours depending on how they are set up. Many of them fronted the disaggregate clusters mentioned above.



  • @JaredBusch said in HA With switches:

    @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    @hobbit666 said in HA With switches:

    As mentioned I was going to use them coming off the core switches, or should I just stick with what I know. Netgear

    As per their names, Ubiquiti really only focuses on Edge devices. Netgear makes amazing core stuff (and edge.) Netgear has a really broad line, too.

    I've dealt with too much bad Netgear. I know you always like them, but I've had crap luck with them over the years.

    Today, I would still use Ubiquiti for core.
    0_1540770479056_e614d4a3-c63d-4444-a297-755ce00caf9f-image.png

    Heh, and our experience with Ubiquiti is the same: Crap. Especially when we've got a lot of VLAN routing to do at the port level. We've seen them take a knipsch and go into lockdown mode where no packets flow on a specific VLAN.

    I do not like Ubiquiti Sam I Am, Sam I Am, I do not like Ubiquiti Sam I Am.

    As far as NETGEAR goes, we avoid anything entry/consumer/pro-sumer. We've only deployed their 10GbE switches and have had good success with them.


  • Service Provider

    @PhlipElder said in HA With switches:

    As far as NETGEAR goes, we avoid anything entry/consumer/pro-sumer. We've only deployed their 10GbE switches and have had good success with them.

    That gets a lot of people, I think. They use consumer Netgear stuff and get questionable results. But I've seen only good results from their more high end gear.


  • Service Provider

    @PhlipElder said in HA With switches:

    @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    @JaredBusch said in HA With switches:

    @scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:

    The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco

    Dude, Cisco sold off Linksys in 2013. Pay attention.
    Cisco bought them in 2003.

    As a brand, but they kept a lot of the products in their routing, switching, and VoIP lines. They sold the name, but they kept the products. So old Linksys is now Cisco proper.

    The Cisco Small Business Pro series edge (NSA 510/520 series with and without WiFi) and their SG300/SG500 series switches were the result of the Linksys purchase engineering combination.

    We've deployed a lot of the SG500x series stackable switches with a few weird behaviours depending on how they are set up. Many of them fronted the disaggregate clusters mentioned above.

    Yeah, we see those "Cisco rebranded Linksys" units all over the place. They are awful.



  • @PhlipElder said in HA With switches:

    MSX1012X

    We have Cisco Sg500 500 now. We are upgrading every cabinet link to SM fiber, so we'll need more SFP.



  • @scottalanmiller When you say "Their High End Gear" what would that be?
    Simply click the "Business" link on their website or a specific range?
    I've been looking at the M7100 for core and maybe XS724EM/XS728T for edge

    Honestly i'd be happy with either Netgear (also been a fan and not see much issues, we have 2 in the core setup now)
    or anything else people think are reliable.