I have to change cloud drive service yet again
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Ya nothing makes sense. I can't imagine any file operations being "reversed" that aren't user-caused, except for some kind of bug in NC. A glitch in the database or some kind of operation performing maintenance?
If you're using the sync client for everyone. It doesn't take rocket science.
Server -> Client 1 -> Original files ->
-> Client 2 -> Original files -> edits file1.xml -> syncs to Server
-> Client 1 sees different file -> check timestamps -> 'newest' file is kept. Only in this case, the "newest" file is Client1's version because time/date is not correct somewhere.Not always the case, but happens often. Which is one reason everyone is saying to not use the Nextcloud client to sync shared files.
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@travisdh1 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Not always the case, but happens often. Which is one reason everyone is saying to not use the Nextcloud client to sync shared files.
Saying not to use it in this fashion. I use the client on hundreds of systems without this issue. because I don't have 5 people trying to write over each other like it is a local shared file.
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Maybe you need an onsite NC setup for the majority of users, and the remote access/sync for the others.
Is your internet connection stable and robust? perhaps it's faltering and causing sync issues?
Sync in a multi-user environment - yeah good luck. Sure tons of people claim they have it working - you're experience is not unique. The current reality is that it simply doesn't exist like your boss wants/thinks it should.
You've already kinda shown him that, you've tested multiple solutions, from some pretty huge names, and none of them work. Their advertising is borderline false.
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Plus they lose all the local computer shortcuts for renaming and moving files around, creating them etc. They have to learn a whole new series of tasks for working with files in the web.
If that were the only choice, then sure, but it's not the only choice.
As mentioned above, you've shown there is no choice because the "options" aren't real - they are all just window dressing for your use case.
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The thing is, it's not about just two people editing over each other. NC handles that with a conflict file.
The operation that keeps causing people trouble is either renaming a file, in which the old name comes back to life. Or moving a file, in which it reverses and goes back to where it was.In some cases when they rename and move a file, we end up with the same file existing in BOTH folders. I would assume easily in this case they simply copied rather than moved, but the employee is adamant, swears under oath, they did CTRL-X and not CTRL-C to move it. They'll even say they "saw the file disappear" when they cut it. Of course, the files don't actually disappear in Windows, they just kind of turn greyed out.
So it's my word versus theirs. My insistence the software works right and they probably just copied, versus their word they swear they cut it. And guess who wins the hey-said/she-said? Not the IT dept that's for sure. Everybody blames the cloud, and by extension me, and thus I have to go find another cloud provider until we never have issues and nothing is ever broken.
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Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
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@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
That's the issue.
If a file is on a bunch of different computers, someone moves it on their local synced folder, NC will have to tell it to move or rename on everyone else's computer too... and perhaps not everyone else's computer is online at that time or syncing to NC. And that person may end up making changes, moving, or renaming before it gets a chance to sync first.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
yeah, that's a behavioural thing that has to stop. Has to, period. Simply isn't something that they can do when using that kind of system, any system like that.
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@scottalanmiller said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
yeah, that's a behavioural thing that has to stop. Has to, period. Simply isn't something that they can do when using that kind of system, any system like that.
Exactly - You're not in a SMB file share type situation anymore - they can't work like they used to no matter how much it kinda looks like the old system.
They have to change their behavior regardless - so why not change it to the best operating solution? Of course, you'll have to determine what that is.
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@Dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Maybe you need an onsite NC setup for the majority of users, and the remote access/sync for the others.
Has he answered this question yet? I haven't seen it and I keep looking for it. In the other thread he mentioned that they have no problem spending some money on hardware... If it's all under one roof buy a new NAS and just run one sync client there.
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@bnrstnr said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Maybe you need an onsite NC setup for the majority of users, and the remote access/sync for the others.
Has he answered this question yet? I haven't seen it and I keep looking for it. In the other thread he mentioned that they have no problem spending some money on hardware... If it's all under one roof buy a new NAS and just run one sync client there.
how would he sync mobile users who are offsite?
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@Dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
how would he sync mobile users who are offsite?
At least he would be consolidating the 11 users that are all onsite, this would probably reduce some headaches even if remote users still use the sync client individually. Almost exactly like you said...
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@bnrstnr said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
how would he sync mobile users who are offsite?
At least he would be consolidating the 11 users that are all onsite, this would probably reduce some headaches even if remote users still use the sync client individually. Almost exactly like you said...
But how would he sync those remote users? what solution are you envisioning?
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@Dashrender The NAS has the sync client and the remote users each use the sync client. The office users don't connect to NC directly at all, they work from the NAS, which syncs back to the Vultr NC server, and the remote users all sync back individually. This might help the office users with less overlapping files all stored on their computers. I don't know where the system is failing though, whether it's the remote users that are messing things up or if it's mostly the office users... he would have to figure that out first. Sorry if slow or rehashing old stuff, I just got back from Brazil and I'm not totally up to date with all of these threads.
I do think it would be better to just have the NC server in the office instead of another file server syncing back... That seems to be the best solution if he is being forced to use NC.
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@bnrstnr said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
and the remote users all sync back individually.
to what? the NC in the cloud? oh man I would expect that to break things like crazy.
NC isn't a requirement here - as far as I know. it's just the current solution the OP is using.
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@scottalanmiller said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
yeah, that's a behavioural thing that has to stop. Has to, period. Simply isn't something that they can do when using that kind of system, any system like that.
What behavior is better?
Assuming you mean they should stop using ctrl-x to cut and paste files. Are you suggesting they should, say, copy the file to their desktop, then delete the NC one, then copy the file back into the new folder location?
Funny thing is, when they ctrl-x and move a file, NC literally records the activity as a file move operation. It knows what just happened. That just makes everything that much more weird.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@scottalanmiller said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
yeah, that's a behavioural thing that has to stop. Has to, period. Simply isn't something that they can do when using that kind of system, any system like that.
What behavior is better?
Assuming you mean they should stop using ctrl-x to cut and paste files. Are you suggesting they should, say, copy the file to their desktop, then delete the NC one, then copy the file back into the new folder location?
Funny thing is, when they ctrl-x and move a file, NC literally records the activity as a file move operation. It knows what just happened. That just makes everything that much more weird.
I know of no business that does this (ctrl+x to move files). If they are all doing this someone must have told them to do it this way. Was that you?
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Funny thing is, when they ctrl-x and move a file, NC literally records the activity as a file move operation. It knows what just happened. That just makes everything that much more weird.
That is because it is a file move operation. There is zero weird here except you, your users, and all of your expectations.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@scottalanmiller said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
yeah, that's a behavioural thing that has to stop. Has to, period. Simply isn't something that they can do when using that kind of system, any system like that.
What behavior is better?
Assuming you mean they should stop using ctrl-x to cut and paste files. Are you suggesting they should, say, copy the file to their desktop, then delete the NC one, then copy the file back into the new folder location?
They should stop moving files around without coordinating with everyone. Do file moves isn't an option like that, this isn't an "expose the guts under the hood and make the end users understand the filesystem" setup like an SMB share, this is a sync service and they simply can't do that without causing problems to each other.
Just stop them completely, don't try to come up with some other way to do it.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Funny thing is, when they ctrl-x and move a file, NC literally records the activity as a file move operation. It knows what just happened. That just makes everything that much more weird.
Well sure, because it is. NTFS records it that way, too. But the problem is is that a move isn't like other things and once moved the file no longer is the same file as the one that the other sync clients are dealing with. So it starts to cause duplications and other weird artefacts.
