IT female empowerment



  • So this is happening alot in MENA and we are seeing more and more of it.

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    DOnt get me wrong I have nothing against the opposite sex (or maybe I am subliminally ) , but I am seeing way to much of those slogans and marketing stuff to the point i am starting to hate it (especially this one= break the ceiling, touch the sky like WTF Does that suppose to mean, sounds to me close to metal/rock band album name), and I dont get it what is having Vagina have to do with getting work.

    I understand that in MENA region women are not getting fair treatment, especially in the street and walking alone but that needs to be fixed and not hiring females just to have female staff, something just does not sound right.

    Also note in MENA it is perfectly fine to specify the sex/gender when hiring sadly, so you can say Female IT position, which are getting increasing, I think in US/Canada you cant get away with that crap, you just say IT position and you interview folks.



  • I am all for anyone who is the most qualified. I don't care about your background, race, religion, gender, etc. People shouldn't be chosen or excluded based on anything other than their ability to do their job well and their willingness to do it for the agreed upon wage.



  • @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    ... their willingness to do it for the agreed upon wage.

    One problem that some people have with this, is there is a belief that men are more aggressive with demanding higher pay and feel that society should regulate this to help women get paid more.



  • @emad-r said in IT female empowerment:

    Also note in MENA it is perfectly fine to specify the sex/gender when hiring sadly, so you can say Female IT position, which are getting increasing, I think in US/Canada you cant get away with that crap, you just say IT position and you interview folks.

    Funny, I was literally just discussing this with one of my offices and they were surprised that the US didn't allow you to specify that.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    ... their willingness to do it for the agreed upon wage.

    One problem that some people have with this, is there is a belief that men are more aggressive with demanding higher pay and feel that society should regulate this to help women get paid more.

    Even if that is true, that is a learned skill.

    Edit: Also, we should not regulate that. Women, as a whole, are just as smart or as dumb as men, as a whole. They can learn to be better negotiators, just like men can learn to be better negotiators.



  • @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    ... their willingness to do it for the agreed upon wage.

    One problem that some people have with this, is there is a belief that men are more aggressive with demanding higher pay and feel that society should regulate this to help women get paid more.

    Even if that is true, that is a learned skill.

    There are two schools of thought on that. One is that it is not a learned skill and intrinsic to genders. The second is that it is indeed a learned skill and one kept from women throughout their childhoods so that they are being discriminated against from birth and put in a position where, as adults, they are at a major disadvantage.



  • @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    Edit: Also, we should not regulate that. Women, as a whole, are just as smart or as dumb as men, as a whole. They can learn to be better negotiators, just like men can learn to be better negotiators.

    Yes, but most men are taught to do this from early childhood, and women are discouraged from it.

    At what point do we say that training that people cannot control should be allowed to influence their careers?



  • Similarly, the rich are naturally better at negotiating than the poor, from a lifetime of being taught to believe in their own value, and lacking the fear of rejection, because rejection for the rich doesn't mean starvation.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    At what point do we say that training that people cannot control should be allowed to influence their careers?

    That shouldn't be a consideration. People can make their own way. At least, in most of the free world, and definitely in the US.

    In general (not always), giving people something for nothing encourages complacency and more "nothingness".



  • @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    Similarly, the rich are naturally better at negotiating than the poor, from a lifetime of being taught to believe in their own value, and lacking the fear of rejection, because rejection for the rich doesn't mean starvation.

    Let's say that premise is true. Are people still unable to practice negotiating at any level?



  • @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    Similarly, the rich are naturally better at negotiating than the poor, from a lifetime of being taught to believe in their own value, and lacking the fear of rejection, because rejection for the rich doesn't mean starvation.

    Also, now we have moved from gender to socioeconomic status. Meaning, gender doesn't affect the ability to learn skills (at whatever age). Do rich women have to negotiate much? I would say that like all women, it depends.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    @emad-r said in IT female empowerment:

    Also note in MENA it is perfectly fine to specify the sex/gender when hiring sadly, so you can say Female IT position, which are getting increasing, I think in US/Canada you cant get away with that crap, you just say IT position and you interview folks.

    Funny, I was literally just discussing this with one of my offices and they were surprised that the US didn't allow you to specify that.

    This is the best thing the US ever did actually, or which ever country that started this. you dont care if the person that comes is centaur as long as he is qualified



  • If you are looking to hire someone in IT, you shouldn't give a crap about their gender. The only time you would, is if you are looking for models/actors.



  • If people find that there are issues with either gender being under-represented in certain careers, they can try to appeal to either gender in education, not by hiring someone just because of their gender.

    Men and women are different. Not in intelligence, mostly in interests. It isn't a big deal and it is a good thing.



  • It's a scientific fact that there are significant physical and chemical differences between the brains of women and men in general.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/study-finds-some-significant-differences-brains-men-and-women

    I think this has everything to do with it.

    I'm not saying women and men can't be good at the same things as the opposite gender, we all know that's not the case. However, the differences in male/female brains plays a significant role in overall tendencies of what men and women are interested in and good at. (think trends)

    I also know society plays a role in this, but it's well understood that significant physical and chemical differences in the BRAIN means that it's mostly biological... by design... men and women are simply different, but more than capable of doing the same things.

    If you interview 10 people for an I.T. position, and of those 10, 9 are male... and the female fits the skillset required by the job role the best... then by all means, she should have the job, and at the same pay an equally qualified male would receive.



  • @obsolesce Absolutely. Gender should not affect wage decisions. If there is a woman that has the exact same level of experience, they should be paid the same as a man. But, if a woman were to take a few years off to have and raise children, that would not equate to a man or even another woman who did not take those years off.



  • Women will become the dominant gender in all fields that lead itself to get schooling after high school. Women are outpacing men in college degrees(Study here). Not saying you have to have a college degree for IT. Trust me I think it is a waste of time for IT. However, as hiring managers and HR usually have college degrees that is what they will lean towards for a position, how many of us have degrees and Certificates just to get the interview? I know I do. However, I think we need to ask why are boys less and less likely to enter college. Is it because in schools in America, the acceptable behavior is female behavior and normal boy behavior (rowdy, disorganized, inattentive especially at younger ages) is discouraged and punished. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/05/the-war-against-boys/304659/

    I don't mind encouraging people to think about going into fields that they wouldn't normally go into. I would never want to think that someone would say "well I shouldn't go into that field because I am male/female". There has been a gender gap in STEM. I think it is starting to shrinking now. What is perplexing is that there isn't a push for men to go into what has been primarily female-dominated fields, for instance, nursing, teaching, social work, etc. If there is something "wrong" with STEM being dominated by men, why is it okay for fields to be dominated by women?



  • @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    @obsolesce Absolutely. Gender should not affect wage decisions. If there is a woman that has the exact same level of experience, they should be paid the same as a man. But, if a woman were to take a few years off to have and raise children, that would not equate to a man or even another woman who did not take those years off.

    I think another factor may be that some employers or hiring managers may purposely sometimes hire a less-skilled person at a lower pay rate, and sometimes it's a female, who in turn my be less likely to ask for a raise over the years working there. This may not be the case, but I can see it playing a role in things.



  • @penguinwrangler said in IT female empowerment:

    Women will become the dominant gender in all fields that lead itself to get schooling after high school. Women are outpacing men in college degrees(Study here). Not saying you have to have a college degree for IT. Trust me I think it is a waste of time for IT. However, as hiring managers and HR usually have college degrees that is what they will lean towards for a position, how many of us have degrees and Certificates just to get the interview?

    This happens today and those companies already tend towards the lower end. This trend would, if anything I think, simply create even more divide with women more and more stuck in shorter careers, at lower end companies.



  • @obsolesce said in IT female empowerment:

    @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    @obsolesce Absolutely. Gender should not affect wage decisions. If there is a woman that has the exact same level of experience, they should be paid the same as a man. But, if a woman were to take a few years off to have and raise children, that would not equate to a man or even another woman who did not take those years off.

    I think another factor may be that some employers or hiring managers may purposely sometimes hire a less-skilled person at a lower pay rate, and sometimes it's a female, who in turn my be less likely to ask for a raise over the years working there. This may not be the case, but I can see it playing a role in things.

    That is certainly a possible thing and there are definitely companies that do that.



  • @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    If people find that there are issues with either gender being under-represented in certain careers, they can try to appeal to either gender in education, not by hiring someone just because of their gender.

    And in a field where education often holds people back from the high end?



  • @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    If people find that there are issues with either gender being under-represented in certain careers, they can try to appeal to either gender in education, not by hiring someone just because of their gender.

    And in a field where education often holds people back from the high end?

    Which fields?



  • @emad-r said in IT female empowerment:
    I understand that in MENA region women are not getting fair treatment, especially in the street and walking alone

    That's a security problem that I don't think can be solved.



  • But here where it gets tricky, I think in whole ML community we have like 1 female ? or maybe like less than 5.

    So you never know if this makes sense or the right approach or not.



  • @emad-r said in IT female empowerment:

    But here where it gets tricks, I think in whole ML community we have like 1 female ? or maybe like less than 5.

    So you never know if this makes sense or the right approach or not.

    Yeah, and those that are here seem very skilled... just like if you'd look in a ballerina community, maybe you'll find less than 5 males, but I'm sure they'd also be skilled.

    But I think still shows that the physical/chemical differences in male and female brains, plus the role society plays, shows why this is the trend, but not never the case.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    ... their willingness to do it for the agreed upon wage.

    One problem that some people have with this, is there is a belief that men are more aggressive with demanding higher pay and feel that society should regulate this to help women get paid more.

    Even if that is true, that is a learned skill.

    There are two schools of thought on that. One is that it is not a learned skill and intrinsic to genders. The second is that it is indeed a learned skill and one kept from women throughout their childhoods so that they are being discriminated against from birth and put in a position where, as adults, they are at a major disadvantage.

    Catch is, "Gender" is a relatively new term with a rather vague definition. So, no real school of thought there as of yet IMNSHO.

    Traditional "Sex" based on XX or XY is plenty studied with some of the longest longitudinal studies in history still ongoing providing a lot of data. Folks are getting fired for citing such.



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  • Vendor

    @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    Funny, I was literally just discussing this with one of my offices and they were surprised that the US didn't allow you to specify that.

    Manilla is a capital with more females than males because of it (people want female call center operators).


  • Vendor

    @scottalanmiller said in IT female empowerment:

    @wrx7m said in IT female empowerment:

    If people find that there are issues with either gender being under-represented in certain careers, they can try to appeal to either gender in education, not by hiring someone just because of their gender.

    And in a field where education often holds people back from the high end?

    A more interesting viewpoint on women in STEM on why certain countries have higher percentages.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/


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