Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
if there is terrain, then some enemies also probably cannot see the bard. and thus will not be affected.
just because the AoE is 30' cube does not mean it affects someone that cannot see the bard as stated.What? It does not specify that you need to see the bard. It's like a color grenade dude. You just need to have sight. Not see anything specifically. If you're in the radius of the spell you are affected. What version of the spell did you link? That doesn't look like 5e. This is what I see for 5e:
I pulled that from the 5e PHB.. so try again..
Yes it does say it weaves through the space. I read that.
What page? Maybe I'm using the wrong reference then. That would explain it
Page 252. First spell.
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
if there is terrain, then some enemies also probably cannot see the bard. and thus will not be affected.
just because the AoE is 30' cube does not mean it affects someone that cannot see the bard as stated.What? It does not specify that you need to see the bard. It's like a color grenade dude. You just need to have sight. Not see anything specifically. If you're in the radius of the spell you are affected. What version of the spell did you link? That doesn't look like 5e. This is what I see for 5e:
I pulled that from the 5e PHB.. so try again..
Yes it does say it weaves through the space. I read that.
What page? Maybe I'm using the wrong reference then. That would explain it
Anyway, the exact definition of "weaves trough the air" is totally up to DM interpretation.
Because the next sentence states it appears for a moment and vanishes.
I would totally rule that terrain affects the saves.
I rule that it weaves through the air at the target location. not through every inch of the 30' cube.
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@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
if there is terrain, then some enemies also probably cannot see the bard. and thus will not be affected.
just because the AoE is 30' cube does not mean it affects someone that cannot see the bard as stated.What? It does not specify that you need to see the bard. It's like a color grenade dude. You just need to have sight. Not see anything specifically. If you're in the radius of the spell you are affected. What version of the spell did you link? That doesn't look like 5e. This is what I see for 5e:
I pulled that from the 5e PHB.. so try again..
Yes it does say it weaves through the space. I read that.
What page? Maybe I'm using the wrong reference then. That would explain it
Anyway, the exact definition of "weaves trough the air" is totally up to DM interpretation.
Because the next sentence states it appears for a moment and vanishes.
I would totally rule that terrain affects the saves.
I rule that it weaves through the air at the target location. not through every inch of the 30' cube.
I agree with you. We were looking at two different descriptions of the spell and mine wasn't the right one, so thanks for the clarification. There should be a point of origin imo which means it comes from a direction. I'll ask my DM about it.
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
if there is terrain, then some enemies also probably cannot see the bard. and thus will not be affected.
just because the AoE is 30' cube does not mean it affects someone that cannot see the bard as stated.What? It does not specify that you need to see the bard. It's like a color grenade dude. You just need to have sight. Not see anything specifically. If you're in the radius of the spell you are affected. What version of the spell did you link? That doesn't look like 5e. This is what I see for 5e:
I pulled that from the 5e PHB.. so try again..
Yes it does say it weaves through the space. I read that.
What page? Maybe I'm using the wrong reference then. That would explain it
Anyway, the exact definition of "weaves trough the air" is totally up to DM interpretation.
Because the next sentence states it appears for a moment and vanishes.
I would totally rule that terrain affects the saves.
I rule that it weaves through the air at the target location. not through every inch of the 30' cube.
I agree with you. We were looking at two different descriptions of the spell and mine wasn't the right one, so thanks for the clarification. There should be a point of origin imo which means it comes from a direction. I'll ask my DM about it.
Make him answer this: "If there is not a point of origin where is kinda weaves like a scintillating ribon in mid air, then are you trying to tell me that this spell flash fills a full 30' cube with a color pattern?"
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@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
if there is terrain, then some enemies also probably cannot see the bard. and thus will not be affected.
just because the AoE is 30' cube does not mean it affects someone that cannot see the bard as stated.What? It does not specify that you need to see the bard. It's like a color grenade dude. You just need to have sight. Not see anything specifically. If you're in the radius of the spell you are affected. What version of the spell did you link? That doesn't look like 5e. This is what I see for 5e:
I pulled that from the 5e PHB.. so try again..
Yes it does say it weaves through the space. I read that.
What page? Maybe I'm using the wrong reference then. That would explain it
Anyway, the exact definition of "weaves trough the air" is totally up to DM interpretation.
Because the next sentence states it appears for a moment and vanishes.
I would totally rule that terrain affects the saves.
I rule that it weaves through the air at the target location. not through every inch of the 30' cube.
I agree with you. We were looking at two different descriptions of the spell and mine wasn't the right one, so thanks for the clarification. There should be a point of origin imo which means it comes from a direction. I'll ask my DM about it.
Make him answer this: "If there is not a point of origin where is kinda weaves like a scintillating ribon in mid air, then are you trying to tell me that this spell flash fills a full 30' cube with a color pattern?"
I actually think that is what he thinks but it's possible he's looking at the wrong description too
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@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
no matter how far away you cast, a player with spellcraft can make a roll to know what you are casting as an immediate action (or maybe reaction, I forget) and potentially warn his allies.
afaik spellcraft doesn't exist in 5e, I think that is from 3.5 or pathfinder possibly. You could simulate it with an arcana check or something I'm guessing but that's up to you as a DM.
Edit: Actually there is the ability to identify a spell with a reaction or action that was added into xanathar's. Interesting. You can't warn people unless you're doing it on your turn though, which in regards to CC can not be possible depending.
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
no matter how far away you cast, a player with spellcraft can make a roll to know what you are casting as an immediate action (or maybe reaction, I forget) and potentially warn his allies.
afaik spellcraft doesn't exist in 5e, I think that is from 3.5 or pathfinder possibly. You could simulate it with an arcana check or something I'm guessing but that's up to you as a DM.
Edit: Actually there is the ability to identify a spell with a reaction or action that was added into xanathar's. Interesting. You can't warn people unless you're doing it on your turn though, which in regards to CC can not be possible depending.
Yes, it is an Arcana check /gasp. I had house ruled that when 5e first came out. Glad someone official pulled their head out of their ass.
The basic concept of reactions to a spell being cast already exist. Read the spell "Counterspell" (PHB page 228).
So putting it all together.
Anyone that uses a reaction to to identify a spell and succeed most certainly can yell out, a free action, and anyone else can react by closing their eyes. It certainly takes their reaction. So if they had some other reason to not have a reaction available, then that would of course come in to play.
This is basic logic, it is also basic role-playing as well as roll-playing.
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@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
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@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
Even if it is considered another creature, it is in your square. Not another square within 5’.
Don’t get me wrong, you want to find every opportunity you play to your strengths. If your DM rules it does, then use it. Getting a couple extra opportunity attacks every combat are fairly low impact.
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@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
Even if it is considered another creature, it is in your square. Not another square within 5’.
Don’t get me wrong, you want to find every opportunity you play to your strengths. If your DM rules it does, then use it. Getting a couple extra opportunity attacks every combat are fairly low impact.
As a rogue you get sneak attack on a reaction, so more impact than usual
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
Even if it is considered another creature, it is in your square. Not another square within 5’.
Don’t get me wrong, you want to find every opportunity you play to your strengths. If your DM rules it does, then use it. Getting a couple extra opportunity attacks every combat are fairly low impact.
As a rogue you get sneak attack on a reaction, so more impact than usual
Not really more impact than usual because Sneak Attack in 5e is gimped to 1/turn.
Extremely technically, it states once per turn and a reaction does not happen on your turn. I would never rule that assinine, but still.
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@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
Even if it is considered another creature, it is in your square. Not another square within 5’.
Don’t get me wrong, you want to find every opportunity you play to your strengths. If your DM rules it does, then use it. Getting a couple extra opportunity attacks every combat are fairly low impact.
As a rogue you get sneak attack on a reaction, so more impact than usual
Not really more impact than usual because Sneak Attack in 5e is gimped to 1/turn.
Extremely technically, it states once per turn and a reaction does not happen on your turn. I would never rule that assinine, but still.
Right. Technically allowed, another thing my DM ruled on in favor of. You do still only get one reaction, so that means no uncanny dodge etc. There is still a trade-off.
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
Even if it is considered another creature, it is in your square. Not another square within 5’.
Don’t get me wrong, you want to find every opportunity you play to your strengths. If your DM rules it does, then use it. Getting a couple extra opportunity attacks every combat are fairly low impact.
As a rogue you get sneak attack on a reaction, so more impact than usual
Not really more impact than usual because Sneak Attack in 5e is gimped to 1/turn.
Extremely technically, it states once per turn and a reaction does not happen on your turn. I would never rule that assinine, but still.
Right. Technically allowed, another thing my DM ruled on in favor of
It is still only a single extra d6 or four, rarely. Totally not impactful in any meaningful way.
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@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
Even if it is considered another creature, it is in your square. Not another square within 5’.
Don’t get me wrong, you want to find every opportunity you play to your strengths. If your DM rules it does, then use it. Getting a couple extra opportunity attacks every combat are fairly low impact.
As a rogue you get sneak attack on a reaction, so more impact than usual
Not really more impact than usual because Sneak Attack in 5e is gimped to 1/turn.
Extremely technically, it states once per turn and a reaction does not happen on your turn. I would never rule that assinine, but still.
Right. Technically allowed, another thing my DM ruled on in favor of
It is still only a single extra d6 or four, rarely. Totally not impactful in any meaningful way.
It wouldn't be very rare if we counted mirror image in the way that my DM ruled on it. That's why I don't like it. I have 3d6 on my sneak attack currently. I sort of look at it like a crit. For that turn you get to deal more or less double damage with two sneak attacks.
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@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
Even if it is considered another creature, it is in your square. Not another square within 5’.
Don’t get me wrong, you want to find every opportunity you play to your strengths. If your DM rules it does, then use it. Getting a couple extra opportunity attacks every combat are fairly low impact.
As a rogue you get sneak attack on a reaction, so more impact than usual
Not really more impact than usual because Sneak Attack in 5e is gimped to 1/turn.
Extremely technically, it states once per turn and a reaction does not happen on your turn. I would never rule that assinine, but still.
Right. Technically allowed, another thing my DM ruled on in favor of
It is still only a single extra d6 or four, rarely. Totally not impactful in any meaningful way.
It wouldn't be very rare if we counted mirror image in the way that my DM ruled on it. That's why I don't like it. I have 3d6 on my sneak attack currently. I sort of look at it like a crit. For that turn you get to deal more or less double damage with two sneak attacks.
um how would it not be rare? you only get 3 images and a worse chance to have it hit the duplicate as you lose them.
Also the spell lasts 10 rounds, and is second level, of which you can only cast 3 a day. Additionally fighters can attack multiple times. You will not keep duplicates long if you are in melee.
Bards are a supporting class not tanks.
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@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@jaredbusch said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@wirestyle22 said in Pen and Paper RPGs - What's your favorite?:
@JaredBusch Here's one for you. My character is an Arcane Trickster Multiclassed into a Warlock (3 levels for Pact Boon + 2 level 2 spell slots). Next level I get Darkness and Mirror Image. I took the sentinel feat. This is how they are worded.
You'll notice that when you succeed on your roll for mirror image, that the target of the attack changes to an image (pointing this out specifically because of the wording). Now, Sentinel says that when a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
So as a DM would you rule that mirror image would trigger sentinel in this way? It seems incredibly strong even though the rules do seem to permit it.
No. That is not another creature, it is an attack on you that simply did not hit. The new wording of mirror image is horrible. You are not “shifting the attack” in any way. That term is simply a bad mechanical description to help people understand how the misss happens. In previous editions it was stated differently.
The spell creates duplicates within your existing 5’ space. Mark out a square on the ground to get a fee for how small that is, and remember that you are not standing rod straight up fright when in combat.
Here is the 3.5 description for example. Note that they were not all within your 5’ space.
I'm actually glad. I asked my DM and he said he does think that it works that way. I'm just not going to do it. It's like a free OA
Even if it is considered another creature, it is in your square. Not another square within 5’.
Don’t get me wrong, you want to find every opportunity you play to your strengths. If your DM rules it does, then use it. Getting a couple extra opportunity attacks every combat are fairly low impact.
As a rogue you get sneak attack on a reaction, so more impact than usual
Not really more impact than usual because Sneak Attack in 5e is gimped to 1/turn.
Extremely technically, it states once per turn and a reaction does not happen on your turn. I would never rule that assinine, but still.
Right. Technically allowed, another thing my DM ruled on in favor of
It is still only a single extra d6 or four, rarely. Totally not impactful in any meaningful way.
It wouldn't be very rare if we counted mirror image in the way that my DM ruled on it. That's why I don't like it. I have 3d6 on my sneak attack currently. I sort of look at it like a crit. For that turn you get to deal more or less double damage with two sneak attacks.
um how would it not be rare? you only get 3 images and a worse chance to have it hit the duplicate as you lose them.
Also the spell lasts 10 rounds, and is second level, of which you can only cast 3 a day. Additionally fighters can attack multiple times. You will not keep duplicates long if you are in melee.
Bards are a supporting class not tanks.
Darkness/Devil's eyes + mirror image and shield. Very unlikely that anyone is going to hit me at my current level at all. So yeah I guess it makes it less likely to even trigger a mirror image.
Disadvantage on the attack. If the attack hits me it has to go through my mirror images. If it makes it through my mirror image I can shield increasing my AC to block the attack potentially. 20 AC w/ shield spell. If it actually gets through all of that and shield won't help me I can uncanny dodge.
I also have two lvl 2 spell slots with my warlock multiclass which I can use to cast wizard spells and vice versa on a short rest. That's 4 lvl 2 spell slots total next level when I get mirror image. I think it totals to 7 if you include the warlock spell slots at max level.
2 from warlock lvl 3 and 5 from arcane trickster lvl 17
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I'm wondering if war caster is worth it for me to maintain darkness or not. I'm leaning on no for the above reasons, but I def could be wrong. Depends on how many things can get around darkness that I encounter, which I can't know in terms of my campaign.
