Dipping Toes Into Programming
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@flaxking said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I started with Python last night for about 45 minutes..
I feel like I'd rather learn JS first, but it seems learning both is best. So starting with Python then Django, then JavaScript. They all go together, but Python seems to have more overall uses in IT.
Yes, there are so many Python modules out there that you could probably almost replace Powershell with it.
Completely replace it, definitely. Python is the most universal automation language for systems administration. You can run Python on .NET, on Java, on the OS directly (with the standard interpreter), it predates PowerShell as the hard core scripting language for Windows automation. It's great because it works on Linux, Solaris, BSD, MacOS, etc. as well.
SaltStack is written in Python and does essentially anything you can imagine.
One thing that caught my attention is how well Python works with the major databases. That will be a big help later.
Definitively the most complete language imho. Js is all nosql. I'm currently looking at asp.net core 2.0 and there are less "production ready" solutions even here.
Python has libs for almost any kind of db. And even a really powerful (but complex) orm! -
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@flaxking said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I started with Python last night for about 45 minutes..
I feel like I'd rather learn JS first, but it seems learning both is best. So starting with Python then Django, then JavaScript. They all go together, but Python seems to have more overall uses in IT.
Yes, there are so many Python modules out there that you could probably almost replace Powershell with it.
Completely replace it, definitely. Python is the most universal automation language for systems administration. You can run Python on .NET, on Java, on the OS directly (with the standard interpreter), it predates PowerShell as the hard core scripting language for Windows automation. It's great because it works on Linux, Solaris, BSD, MacOS, etc. as well.
SaltStack is written in Python and does essentially anything you can imagine.
One thing that caught my attention is how well Python works with the major databases. That will be a big help later.
They all really do that. Database integration isn't lacking from any major language.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
Definitively the most complete language imho. Js is all nosql.
JS has no particular affinity for NoSQL any more than for relational databases. There is a trend in the NodeJS community to lean towards NoSQL, and there is a trend in language like Python and Ruby to lean towards relational - but it has nothing to do with the language or capabilities, but only the kinds of projects people are popularly making with those languages. And often it's nothing more than one or two famous frameworks creating the impression.
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I’ve been doing a lot with Go lately and I think I’m going to start using that for most things I do. It’s probably the most cross platform available language. I’m not a dev in any way but it’s pretty easy to pick up. Web stuff is really easy with it as well.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@matteo-nunziati said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
Definitively the most complete language imho. Js is all nosql.
JS has no particular affinity for NoSQL any more than for relational databases. There is a trend in the NodeJS community to lean towards NoSQL, and there is a trend in language like Python and Ruby to lean towards relational - but it has nothing to do with the language or capabilities, but only the kinds of projects people are popularly making with those languages. And often it's nothing more than one or two famous frameworks creating the impression.
Yes this is not a language/implementation feature but most of a community trend.
What I mean is: Try postrgres in python: there is plenty of options. From python default db lib up to sqlalchemy.
Most of what I sorted out in node/js was plain sql queries embedded in strings into calling functions. -
@stacksofplates said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I’ve been doing a lot with Go lately and I think I’m going to start using that for most things I do. It’s probably the most cross platform available language. I’m not a dev in any way but it’s pretty easy to pick up. Web stuff is really easy with it as well.
I’ll clarify. Not most cross platform but easiest.
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@stacksofplates said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I’ve been doing a lot with Go lately and I think I’m going to start using that for most things I do. It’s probably the most cross platform available language. I’m not a dev in any way but it’s pretty easy to pick up. Web stuff is really easy with it as well.
Go looks interesting too!
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This video might be useful for you, too.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/14309/standard-patterns-for-smb-bespoke-software-development/
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@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
This video might be useful for you, too.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/14309/standard-patterns-for-smb-bespoke-software-development/
You make some really good points in that video. Maybe I have been over thinking this and really, for what I would like to do, PHP would work. So now, why not PHP instead of python?
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
This video might be useful for you, too.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/14309/standard-patterns-for-smb-bespoke-software-development/
You make some really good points in that video. Maybe I have been over thinking this and really, for what I would like to do, PHP would work. So now, why not PHP instead of python?
Python’s strong suit is easy readability for teams and system automation. PHP’s strong suit is simple, traditional web applications.
Most big web apps that you know like WordPress and NextCloud are PHP. PHP is super easy to deploy tontraditional web hosts as well but Python is not.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
This video might be useful for you, too.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/14309/standard-patterns-for-smb-bespoke-software-development/
You make some really good points in that video. Maybe I have been over thinking this and really, for what I would like to do, PHP would work. So now, why not PHP instead of python?
Python’s strong suit is easy readability for teams and system automation. PHP’s strong suit is simple, traditional web applications.
Most big web apps that you know like WordPress and NextCloud are PHP. PHP is super easy to deploy tontraditional web hosts as well but Python is not.
Yeah I may do PHP instead. It does hit all the things I need, plus it will help with existing things I use like WP and such. You can even talk to salt API I think. At least I seen a library or whatever for PHP that will interface with it.
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SoloLearn is really great. I started this before but it's been a while.
https://www.sololearn.com/Courses/
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
This video might be useful for you, too.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/14309/standard-patterns-for-smb-bespoke-software-development/
You make some really good points in that video. Maybe I have been over thinking this and really, for what I would like to do, PHP would work. So now, why not PHP instead of python?
Python’s strong suit is easy readability for teams and system automation. PHP’s strong suit is simple, traditional web applications.
Most big web apps that you know like WordPress and NextCloud are PHP. PHP is super easy to deploy tontraditional web hosts as well but Python is not.
Yeah I may do PHP instead. It does hit all the things I need, plus it will help with existing things I use like WP and such. You can even talk to salt API I think. At least I seen a library or whatever for PHP that will interface with it.
API pretty much always means that you don't need any specific language. Of course, that's not completely universal, but essentially universal. You basically always assume that everything talks to everything in this day and age. Making an API that was language specific would be absurdly complicated and even the most common "language focused" API out there, which is a native "internal data exchange" in JavaScript, is so well supported that even though you are speaking in native JavaScript Objects it is used as a universal data interchange format... you know it as JSON.
When working with a product today, if you are interfacing by writing code that goes INSIDE the project (like you submit it to Github and hope the package maintainer accepts it) then you care what language you are in to do so. But if you are writing software to talk over the network to another piece of software, it's all universal because they have to share that network format.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
This video might be useful for you, too.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/14309/standard-patterns-for-smb-bespoke-software-development/
You make some really good points in that video. Maybe I have been over thinking this and really, for what I would like to do, PHP would work. So now, why not PHP instead of python?
Python’s strong suit is easy readability for teams and system automation. PHP’s strong suit is simple, traditional web applications.
Most big web apps that you know like WordPress and NextCloud are PHP. PHP is super easy to deploy tontraditional web hosts as well but Python is not.
Yeah I may do PHP instead. It does hit all the things I need, plus it will help with existing things I use like WP and such. You can even talk to salt API I think. At least I seen a library or whatever for PHP that will interface with it.
API pretty much always means that you don't need any specific language. Of course, that's not completely universal, but essentially universal. You basically always assume that everything talks to everything in this day and age. Making an API that was language specific would be absurdly complicated and even the most common "language focused" API out there, which is a native "internal data exchange" in JavaScript, is so well supported that even though you are speaking in native JavaScript Objects it is used as a universal data interchange format... you know it as JSON.
When working with a product today, if you are interfacing by writing code that goes INSIDE the project (like you submit it to Github and hope the package maintainer accepts it) then you care what language you are in to do so. But if you are writing software to talk over the network to another piece of software, it's all universal because they have to share that network format.
I see, I didn't realize it was like that.
One of the things I searched for with all 3 of my considerations was that it "talked" to the Salt API, or at least REST API. They all do (PHP, JS, Python). So I guess then everything does.
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I am liking PHP more than Python. PHP seems so much easier in every way so far... but I'm not very far with either.
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I am liking PHP more than Python. PHP seems so much easier in every way so far... but I'm not very far with either.
If you are mostly focused on websites logic go php. This is the very application field for php. Python is a general purpouse lang. Still useful but for simple web stuff php is the entry point. Let say that if you have to do website jobs for the most, path could be php-> any framework of any general purpouse -> node.js
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I am liking PHP more than Python. PHP seems so much easier in every way so far... but I'm not very far with either.
I feel that PHP is the easiest language to learn. It was completely designed around simplicity from the very beginning, and was the first language designed specifically around the needs of making web apps.
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And since PHP 7 the performance has really leapt forward.
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@popester said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
Might be worth a scan. https://www.codementor.io/blog/worst-languages-to-learn-3phycr98zk?utm_content=posts&utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medium=email&utm_term=post-3phycr98zk&utm_campaign=newsletter20180307
It doesn't list so many key languages, though. Doesn't really make sense as a list. And community engagement and jobs are both bad indicators - since community engagement is at best loosely related to value and jobs is a reflection of legacy support more than anything. Things like "utility for making products" aren't even considered, nor are some of the most important languages like JavaScript, Python, PHP or the ones that are obviously the worst, like VB.
