server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?
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@dashrender said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@scottalanmiller said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
This is for servers, for desktops, whiteboxing is, I think, back in style. The desktop market has really tanked and what is out there isn't very good. Basically no one wants to manufacture cheap desktops for business, there isn't any money in it. So to get what you want, you whitebox.
This will change, I think, when SoC based desktops become the range. Give me a fast Snapdragon, 8GB of RAM, and a solid Linux desktop in a tiny sealed box and I'll stop whiteboxing my desktops.
What are you whiteboxing for business desktops these days? NUCs? They don't seem to be that much if any cheaper than HP micro PCs when you fill them with the parts and OS license.
I wish one day we will begin using Single Board Computers like Pi3 and its stronger alternatives for this.
I am keeping an eye ok Rockchip 3399 boards
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@scottalanmiller said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
The reason that Americans are abhorent to whiteboxing is because we get Dell refurb via xByte and SuperMicro at crazy low prices. We can't justify the time of specing out parts, let alone buying them, for a whitebox. Outside of the US, though, where those super low prices don't exist, whiteboxing makes perfect sense.
Yup exactly, whenever I hear relative coming from US or Canada to Jordan, I always bother them to purchase
Just to give you an idea RASPBERRY PI 3 = cost 35 $ us dollar (no sale or discount) = 24.84 Jordanian Dinar
Here from 2 sales site not 1:
https://mikroelectron.com/Product/Raspberry-Pi-3/
http://www.elektrojo.com/home/1629-raspberry-pi-3-model-b-armv8-with-1g-ram.htmlCosts 50 JD = 70.45 US Dollar
So we pay actually Double the cost, and in country where salaries are 1/5 of what you get in the US.
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@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@bbigford my curiosity comes from the following fact:
A dual proc with 128gb ram, raid controller and 4 big 3.5 sata disks, no redundant p. supply comes in at 5000€ involving nbd for 5 years.Nbd and no redundant supply along w/ sata is basically shit. If you want proper support redundancy and perf you go in the 10000€ ballpark.
If a vendor was available with 24h spare delivery an 36/60 months warranty, it would be interesting to evaluate its costs.
I'm almost sure if you go higher in specs it doesn't worth, but under a certain spec you really feel robbed.
Go with Dell. You can get their machine for half the price they listed it, if you spend some time in the negotiations.
I’ve took two r740 with 2x 14cores, 11 1tb sas 3 ssd, the best perc available, 578 Gb of ram, idrac enteprise, sd module, 4hr mission critical support and a lot of 10-25gbit ports (I’m sure I’m forgetting something like radyrails) for ~24k each. They were listed over 50k… -
@francesco-provino yeah this is why I say that on bigger layouts it doesn't worth to whitbox. Even HPE does similar, but on small systems discounts are areally limited.
also if you want to add new disks later and you do not reach the critical mass for a discount you pay the full price!
Not a good deal for a small business with its early needs in virtualization and a bunch of services. -
@scottalanmiller said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
The reason that Americans are abhorent to whiteboxing is because we get Dell refurb via xByte and SuperMicro at crazy low prices. We can't justify the time of specing out parts, let alone buying them, for a whitebox. Outside of the US, though, where those super low prices don't exist, whiteboxing makes perfect sense.
You guys in the US get great deals with xByte!, just over the border and we get hit with the exchange rate, high shipping(because of weight), and duties.
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@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
A dual proc with 128gb ram, raid controller and 4 big 3.5 sata disks, no redundant p. supply comes in at 5000€ involving nbd for 5 years.
to compare, configuring the same on xbyte on R430 and converting to euro this leads to 3200€ aka 64% of the same stuff here in Italy.
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@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
I'm basically try to understand if something exists like in the nas space with buffalo and netgear which provide business grade stuff and support.
Here we have only a bunch of enterprises an a load of micro-companies.OK now I'm confused. Do you need a server or a NAS? I thought you needed a server but that post talks about a NAS instead. That changes things considerably if that is the case.
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@bbigford sorry: bad english on my side.
I meant that in Italy we some brands in the NAS space that provide business grade support, rather than enterprise support. This lower the price of products (as I was thinking about buying stuff with support).
This kind of products is available via Buffalo and Netgear.
I was searching for something similar in the server space. As I've found nothing I've started digging deeper -dropped the service requirement- and googling around I've hit the barebones of the topic.
While this is not what I was searching in origin barebones are still an option. I was curious to know other people's experiences about reliability/quality of those brands (gigabyte and so...)
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@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@bbigford sorry: bad english on my side.
I meant that in Italy we some brands in the NAS space that provide business grade support, rather than enterprise support. This lower the price of products (as I was thinking about buying stuff with support).
This kind of products is available via Buffalo and Netgear.
I was searching for something similar in the server space. As I've found nothing I've started digging deeper -dropped the service requirement- and googling around I've hit the barebones of the topic.
While this is not what I was searching in origin barebones are still an option. I was curious to know other people's experiences about reliability/quality of those brands (gigabyte and so...)
I think I'm getting a clearer picture. But what is the need you're trying to fill? File storage, lab with VM storage, etc. I think an answer to that would paint a crystal clear picture of what a community could provide input in.
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@bbigford said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@bbigford sorry: bad english on my side.
I meant that in Italy we some brands in the NAS space that provide business grade support, rather than enterprise support. This lower the price of products (as I was thinking about buying stuff with support).
This kind of products is available via Buffalo and Netgear.
I was searching for something similar in the server space. As I've found nothing I've started digging deeper -dropped the service requirement- and googling around I've hit the barebones of the topic.
While this is not what I was searching in origin barebones are still an option. I was curious to know other people's experiences about reliability/quality of those brands (gigabyte and so...)
I think I'm getting a clearer picture. But what is the need you're trying to fill? File storage, lab with VM storage, etc. I think an answer to that would paint a crystal clear picture of what a community could provide input in.
OK this is the big picture.
Main reason for this question is that I've switched work and now I'm more and more exposed to very small companies. Not so small that a synology is enough, but small in the sense they would be perfectly served by an hypervisor running on a 1U server with few services.
Commonly you will find a small erp (do not think NAV or SAP, something really small!), the presence tracker server (the one connected to those small appliances where you slap the bagde on), maybe the voip server if they have voip internally. And yes, a small file storage and an AD.
Now they struggle with a real mess: a mix of VMs and baremetal. Consolidate and virtualize everything would be great but the entry point is a bit expensive. So they tend to not move on.
Example: we have the file server on synology and an AD on an ancient tower server, the voip is not there because a dedicated server will cost, also we backup the synology on a usb disk.
Moving the fileserver on the hypervisor, let put all services under hypervisor and use the NAS as a backup target would be a better solution for them.
Nontheless they have to make a big investment. Here it is: some use leasing and buy really priced stuff from Dell or HPE, others simply say "cool, but no thanks" <- this is what generated the search on google and the search pointed out these producers of "unknown" barebones.
We have three levels of support in Italy (more or less): consumer (aka you are screwed), business (send replacement in 24h but no on site service sorry) and enterprise (NBD or 24/7 on site), I was searching for a compromise to let those small companies redesign the infrastructure in a more modern way.
without breaking the bank.
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Are there no hosting solutions there? or is internet so bad as to make them not an option?
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@dashrender well some of them have adsl 7/0.5 mbit/s up/down. others have decent FTTC (say 30/10).
also: hosting for VPS? in a few months they have paid the same as for a new server.While Vultr could be ok for VoIP I still need to manage a fileserver on NAS, an AD and other minor things which require a certain amount of disk space... my first idea was: why not virtualize everything in a small server in house...
but the price tag seems too much to them and have asked for something cheaper... I've digged a bit on google and I've met these brands.
BETTER: I was aware of some of them (Intel and Asrock), some others have been proposed by google.
So here my curiosity.
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@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@dashrender well some of them have adsl 7/0.5 mbit/s up/down. others have decent FTTC (say 30/10).
also: hosting for VPS? in a few months they have paid the same as for a new server.Really? they are that expensive there?
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@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@dashrender well some of them have adsl 7/0.5 mbit/s up/down. others have decent FTTC (say 30/10).
also: hosting for VPS? in a few months they have paid the same as for a new server.While Vultr could be ok for VoIP I still need to manage a fileserver on NAS, an AD and other minor things which require a certain amount of disk space... my first idea was: why not virtualize everything in a small server in house...
but the price tag seems too much to them and have asked for something cheaper... I've digged a bit on google and I've met these brands.
BETTER: I was aware of some of them (Intel and Asrock), some others have been proposed by google.
So here my curiosity.
I'm not really sure what we can offer for you here. If the businesses aren't willing to spend what is needed for a solution, what more can you do?
Sure, if all they want is a PC running those services, fine, just tell them the risks, do what they want and move on. I'm not sure how litigious things are in Italy, but if that's a risk to you, make sure you do it all via email or something?
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As mentioned if they aren't willing to pay for decent kit then they need to make do and hope something doesn't fail soon.
I'm kind of looking at this type of thing myself (but not for production usage) we need a "archive" server to put some old SQL servers on that might be needed 2-3 times a year.
I don't want to spend ££££££ so I've started looking at refurb kit. £500-600 next bis day replacement parts (12months). Dual hex core, 64gb ram and 2-4tb storage.
Or I found this on the UK insight site
https://www.uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/servers/0006266833-00000001
Should be ok for running a few VM on and not to pricy. -
@hobbit666 said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
As mentioned if they aren't willing to pay for decent kit then they need to make do and hope something doesn't fail soon.
I'm kind of looking at this type of thing myself (but not for production usage) we need a "archive" server to put some old SQL servers on that might be needed 2-3 times a year.
I don't want to spend ££££££ so I've started looking at refurb kit. £500-600 next bis day replacement parts (12months). Dual hex core, 64gb ram and 2-4tb storage.
Or I found this on the UK insight site
https://www.uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/servers/0006266833-00000001
Should be ok for running a few VM on and not to pricy.mmm... this seems to fit quite well... maybe a bit weak on disk perf. but it is better than a 5000€ stuff.
also, I've digged a bit and I've found only 1 revirew about an asrock barebone for storage : 1U with non 12 non hotswap hdd. those barebones seems more gosts than anything else.
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@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@hobbit666 said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
As mentioned if they aren't willing to pay for decent kit then they need to make do and hope something doesn't fail soon.
I'm kind of looking at this type of thing myself (but not for production usage) we need a "archive" server to put some old SQL servers on that might be needed 2-3 times a year.
I don't want to spend ££££££ so I've started looking at refurb kit. £500-600 next bis day replacement parts (12months). Dual hex core, 64gb ram and 2-4tb storage.
Or I found this on the UK insight site
https://www.uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/servers/0006266833-00000001
Should be ok for running a few VM on and not to pricy.mmm... this seems to fit quite well... maybe a bit weak on disk perf. but it is better than a 5000€ stuff.
also, I've digged a bit and I've found only 1 revirew about an asrock barebone for storage : 1U with non 12 non hotswap hdd. those barebones seems more gosts than anything else.
I know at least one major storage vendor who uses them for stuff. ASRock is good gear.
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@dashrender said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@dashrender well some of them have adsl 7/0.5 mbit/s up/down. others have decent FTTC (say 30/10).
also: hosting for VPS? in a few months they have paid the same as for a new server.Really? they are that expensive there?
Cheaper than in the US, actually.
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@dashrender said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
Really? they are that expensive there?
smallest VPS in local provider usable for something is 12,50€ per month (4gb ram, 2 cores, 80gb hdd). for databases this ram is really small. for file servers this disk is too small.
A proper sql express VPS w/ 4 core 16gb ram and 50gb disk (including space for OS!) will raise up to 82€/month.
A virtual file server is something like 127€/month (2 core, 4gb ram, 700gb hdd).If you set up a decent physical server in house and you put hyperv on, usually you pay something like 200€ per VM per year. But you have to pay for a full server. which is expensive.
I mean: with local server you scale better on prices but you must have the will to invest. some have not, therefore a cheaper solution would be more interesting for them.
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@matteo-nunziati said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
@dashrender said in server barebones: asrock, gigabyte, tyan, intel, chenbro. Opinions?:
Really? they are that expensive there?
smallest VPS in local provider usable for something is 12,50€ per month (4gb ram, 2 cores, 80gb hdd). for databases this ram is really small. for file servers this disk is too small.
A proper sql express VPS w/ 4 core 16gb ram and 50gb disk (including space for OS!) will raise up to 82€/month.
A virtual file server is something like 127€/month (2 core, 4gb ram, 700gb hdd).Here is a key problem. SQL Server is for rich companies that are just throwing money around. It requires big specs, and expensive Windows licensing. We get more database power for under half that price simply by not using a database for rich companies.
We run some pretty massive databases for way less than that.
