question about setting up a new domain controller
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
ok then I would go directly to Microsoft's website and purchase their O365 product, but then you are telling me not to do that because I should be working with a partner. The problem now is that I can't find a single partner or anyone who isn't selling stuff.
As a more general guidelines, anyone that isn't the F500, and you can bet that they all have these too even if they don't need them, should have non-reseller consultants involved all of the time. That's just part of being a non-enterprise IT department. Until you have hundreds or thousands of dedicated IT staff internally, you can't really consider being without a consultancy as you just can't cover the necessary bases alone. IT isn't a one man job, it's a thousand man job. It's no shame, it's just that the scale of the SMB means that IT is a team effort with outsiders. Just the nature of the scope of IT.
So, in theory, working with an MS Partner is just an extension of that. Microsoft expects that either your existing non-reseller partners will already be in place and handle this, of that you will have one that points you to one that they work with.
Also, many general VARs don't sell O365 and only partner for that one product as it is very cumbersome to resell. And reselling wasn't even allowed until the partner marketplace was saturated.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
You can get the O365 subscriptions cheaper by going through someone like AppRiver.
Cheaper than Microsoft direct I mean.
Is this real O365, or is it reseller O365, i.e. crippled by however Appriver (like Rackspace/GoDaddy) wants to?
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
ok then I would go directly to Microsoft's website and purchase their O365 product, but then you are telling me not to do that because I should be working with a partner. The problem now is that I can't find a single partner or anyone who isn't selling stuff.
Except you HAVE found them. Why do you keep saying you haven't found one?
Locally and previously I mean. You guys have just provided me with some partners..
Oh okay. Then sure, but I assume that in the past no one even knew to go looking for them. So without knowing to look, you tend not to find.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
You can get the O365 subscriptions cheaper by going through someone like AppRiver.
Cheaper than Microsoft direct I mean.
Is this real O365, or is it reseller O365, i.e. crippled by however Appriver (like Rackspace/GoDaddy) wants to?
Reseller, only reseller can alter the price. That's a guarantee that it must be avoided.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
You can get the O365 subscriptions cheaper by going through someone like AppRiver.
Cheaper than Microsoft direct I mean.
Yes, that's what you watch out for. GoDaddy is cheaper, too. You don't get O365, it just looks like it.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
ok then I would go directly to Microsoft's website and purchase their O365 product, but then you are telling me not to do that because I should be working with a partner. The problem now is that I can't find a single partner or anyone who isn't selling stuff.
Except you HAVE found them. Why do you keep saying you haven't found one?
We are telling you about two partners @NTG and @Bundy-Associates . Both of these are partners with MS and can help you setup O365 accounts, getting you an additional connection for support from MS on the O365 products. These guys might get something like $1/account that you setup in the first year, otherwise they get nothing. They make money by selling you their service of migrating your email for you from whatever you have today, to O365, etc.
AFAIK, we get nothing at all except for the introduction to the customer.
Also costs us "nothing" to do. We just get listed as the partner.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
You can get the O365 subscriptions cheaper by going through someone like AppRiver.
Cheaper than Microsoft direct I mean.
Yes, that's what you watch out for. GoDaddy is cheaper, too. You don't get O365, it just looks like it.
See, this is BS, MS shouldn't allow these resellers to call it O365 - they should be required to call it's Bob's Email+ service (powered by O365)... but they don't.
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As a partner, in theory, you get "more notice from Microsoft" so if you are the partner for huge numbers of clients, MS is more likely to listen to you. But that is only a theory.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
ok then I would go directly to Microsoft's website and purchase their O365 product, but then you are telling me not to do that because I should be working with a partner. The problem now is that I can't find a single partner or anyone who isn't selling stuff.
Except you HAVE found them. Why do you keep saying you haven't found one?
Locally and previously I mean. You guys have just provided me with some partners..
Oh okay. Then sure, but I assume that in the past no one even knew to go looking for them. So without knowing to look, you tend not to find.
yeah see I came into this job as my first IT gig, knowing nothing. I was more or less told, "here is our Dell VAR and here are a few other IT related contacts of companies we go through for things." So I have been using the contact info I was given but as I go online and ask questions (constantly), I'm learning about all the BS and pitfalls (mainly thanks to you).
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
You can get the O365 subscriptions cheaper by going through someone like AppRiver.
Cheaper than Microsoft direct I mean.
Yes, that's what you watch out for. GoDaddy is cheaper, too. You don't get O365, it just looks like it.
See, this is BS, MS shouldn't allow these resellers to call it O365 - they should be required to call it's Bob's Email+ service (powered by O365)... but they don't.
I agree 100%. No idea why they allow that. Makes no sense.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
ok then I would go directly to Microsoft's website and purchase their O365 product, but then you are telling me not to do that because I should be working with a partner. The problem now is that I can't find a single partner or anyone who isn't selling stuff.
Except you HAVE found them. Why do you keep saying you haven't found one?
Locally and previously I mean. You guys have just provided me with some partners..
Oh okay. Then sure, but I assume that in the past no one even knew to go looking for them. So without knowing to look, you tend not to find.
yeah see I came into this job as my first IT gig, knowing nothing. I was more or less told, "here is our Dell VAR and here are a few other IT related contacts of companies we go through for things." So I have been using the contact info I was given but as I go online and ask questions (constantly), I'm learning about all the BS and pitfalls (mainly thanks to you).
This one, if we back up to its generic root (rather than getting mired in the specific details of Microsoft's weird system for their hosted services) is, I truly believe, the number one thing that is most important to know and understand about IT (and business in general.) The idea of understand vendor relationships, business alignment, who is sales and who is IT, etc. It's general business knowledge and not unique to IT, but it is never taught but assumed that business people will just know, and in IT it is far more dramatic and difficult to identify and businesses often try to ignore IT needs and fail to provide more general business support to it like they would if this was accounting or human resources.
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The whole topic around "what's a vendor" to "who's a salesman" to "how do I engage for advice", etc. is itself general business and somehow never, ever taught. The amount of problems that it creates really shows the problems with the IT education process. How has no one identified this as a huge educational gap and addressed it in the field? Clearly, because colleges and universities don't know IT in any way and just skip all of this stuff leaving it completely unaddressed. They don't look to the field to see where there are things being missed and don't don't work to fill them. They just ignore the field and leave things like this unmentioned.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
VAR
I'm currently seeking information from CDW on this..
No, you CAN'T use a VAR with Exchange Online. You will be SCREWED. There is ONE thing to know about cloud services, and it is that you never involve a VAR.
Well where the hell do I find a partner then?
I provided one
NTG is a partner.Anyone working with Office 365 that doesn't sell it is a partner.
Is there some time of list somewhere that IT pros are magically supposed to know which are VARs and which are partners?
This is one of those weird things that I never understand. Never in my life have I not just known when someone is selling me something and when someone is advising me.
ok let me try to explain it to you. If I have to buy a product to use, I have to get that product from somewhere and that usually means interfacing with another person that belongs to a company. At this point, the ability to see what's going on behind the scenes disappears. I don't know all the inner-workings of the various companies that have changed together a sales channel that turns the customer's money into the product/services they want. If I specifically ask every person I interact with, it may help, but I'm sure they will respond in a way that isn't blatantly obvious that they are one of many parasites trying to suck money out of you while you try to purchase something.
You have no need to know the inner-workings. You know to whom you hand your credit card. It's that simple. Are you paying Microsoft, or are you paying someone else? You want a Microsoft service, you pay Microsoft only. If you want a GoDaddy service (that MS may or may not service to them), then you pay GoDaddy.
The interface to you tells you everything that you need to know if the case of Office 365.
ok then I would go directly to Microsoft's website and purchase their O365 product, but then you are telling me not to do that because I should be working with a partner. The problem now is that I can't find a single partner or anyone who isn't selling stuff.
Except you HAVE found them. Why do you keep saying you haven't found one?
Locally and previously I mean. You guys have just provided me with some partners..
Oh okay. Then sure, but I assume that in the past no one even knew to go looking for them. So without knowing to look, you tend not to find.
yeah see I came into this job as my first IT gig, knowing nothing. I was more or less told, "here is our Dell VAR and here are a few other IT related contacts of companies we go through for things." So I have been using the contact info I was given but as I go online and ask questions (constantly), I'm learning about all the BS and pitfalls (mainly thanks to you).
This one, if we back up to its generic root (rather than getting mired in the specific details of Microsoft's weird system for their hosted services) is, I truly believe, the number one thing that is most important to know and understand about IT (and business in general.) The idea of understand vendor relationships, business alignment, who is sales and who is IT, etc. It's general business knowledge and not unique to IT, but it is never taught but assumed that business people will just know, and in IT it is far more dramatic and difficult to identify and businesses often try to ignore IT needs and fail to provide more general business support to it like they would if this was accounting or human resources.
I've been realizing this more and more as I go. I need to spend some time focusing on ironing all this out somehow..
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
The whole topic around "what's a vendor" to "who's a salesman" to "how do I engage for advice", etc. is itself general business and somehow never, ever taught. The amount of problems that it creates really shows the problems with the IT education process. How has no one identified this as a huge educational gap and addressed it in the field? Clearly, because colleges and universities don't know IT in any way and just skip all of this stuff leaving it completely unaddressed. They don't look to the field to see where there are things being missed and don't don't work to fill them. They just ignore the field and leave things like this unmentioned.
Is IT (the business sense) even taught in any school?
From Scott's postings.. IT should be more akin to Business School that tech school. From Scott's postings, it's less about technology and more about ensuring that proper business understanding of use/integration of technology is involved.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
The whole topic around "what's a vendor" to "who's a salesman" to "how do I engage for advice", etc. is itself general business and somehow never, ever taught. The amount of problems that it creates really shows the problems with the IT education process. How has no one identified this as a huge educational gap and addressed it in the field? Clearly, because colleges and universities don't know IT in any way and just skip all of this stuff leaving it completely unaddressed. They don't look to the field to see where there are things being missed and don't don't work to fill them. They just ignore the field and leave things like this unmentioned.
Is IT (the business sense) even taught in any school?
Yes, it's called business school. That's why we mention that and psychology as the top degrees that we want to see for IT graduates. That's where the most IT related stuff gets taught.
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Now, of course, the question still is "is it taught well?" But, in general, business is taught reasonably well by good business schools. It is certainly the kind of thing that universities are decent at teaching.
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So going back to the reseller vs partner bit:
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If I go through a partner, they will help me get set up with hosted Exchange directly through MS, so I am subject only to MS?
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If I go through a re-seller, I basically get their version of that service, which means I am subject to the limitations they put on it (max mailbox size for example) and I am also subject to their pricing as well as the risk that the are responsible for paying MS to keep our Exchange active?
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
So going back to the reseller vs partner bit:
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If I go through a partner, they will help me get set up with hosted Exchange directly through MS, so I am subject only to MS?
-
If I go through a re-seller, I basically get their version of that service, which means I am subject to the limitations they put on it (max mailbox size for example) and I am also subject to their pricing as well as the risk that the are responsible for paying MS to keep our Exchange active?
yep.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
So going back to the reseller vs partner bit:
-
If I go through a partner, they will help me get set up with hosted Exchange directly through MS, so I am subject only to MS?
-
If I go through a re-seller, I basically get their version of that service, which means I am subject to the limitations they put on it (max mailbox size for example) and I am also subject to their pricing as well as the risk that the are responsible for paying MS to keep our Exchange active?
yep.
holy shit do I actually understand something???
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
So going back to the reseller vs partner bit:
-
If I go through a partner, they will help me get set up with hosted Exchange directly through MS, so I am subject only to MS?
-
If I go through a re-seller, I basically get their version of that service, which means I am subject to the limitations they put on it (max mailbox size for example) and I am also subject to their pricing as well as the risk that the are responsible for paying MS to keep our Exchange active?
yep.
holy shit do I actually understand something???
LOL - it seems so.
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