Enterprise Development Tools for an SMB
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I'm just starting a 12 to 18 month project to replace our ERP system with Microsoft Dynamics NAV. I want to use Agile for this. We have a core team of nine. There are, of course, loads of software tools for managing agile teams. Trello is a popular one, but I'm not sure it is flexible enough as implementing ERP involves hundreds of different interrelated tasks.
Because Agile came out of the software industry, and because it's so widespread in that industry, people often think of it as just a tool for that industry. But it works with all project in all organisations. I actually use a scrum cum kanban system (scrumban) to manage my IT department, even though I'm a one man band. I have a daily scrum with myself! I don't actually talk out loud as I share an office and that would be weird, but I go through a daily scrum in my head each morning. I use a system I wrote myself on our intranet, which works for me, but doesn't scale well for bigger, team based projects.
I love agile and scrum and kanban. I genuinely believe this stuff should be taught at schools starting at kindergarten. I've introduced it at work with some success. We recently closed one of our warehouses and consolidated the others and aIthough I wasn't involved in this project at all, they used agile techniques (kanban boards, daily stand-ups), although it was all paper based with post-it notes on the wall.
So I'm looking for a tool. Trello is an obvious one, but I think it's probably too simple and limited. Jira Agile may be too far the other way, so I may want something in between. But it looks good so far. I like the ability to create sub-projects and to store file attachments against a task. And the filtering and search features are awesome. And the price for ten users is ace.
I've written ERP systems for a software house, and I've implemented ERP systems for end-user sites, and honestly there isn't a great deal of difference in the workflow. So it's wrong to think that Jira Agile, or any other agile project management tool, is just for developers. So I don't know why you lolled. A quick google shows that loads of companies are using Jira Agile (aka Greenhopper) in a non-development environment.
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Does agile beat waterfall for ERP projects? That's a different kettle of fish. There's a lot of debate out there on this subject. I'm really not sure. But I'm going to find out. I suspect agile works best for SMBs, but not for large enterprises.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Does agile beat waterfall for ERP projects? That's a different kettle of fish. There's a lot of debate out there on this subject. I'm really not sure. But I'm going to find out. I suspect agile works best for SMBs, but not for large enterprises.
Agile works for everyone. I've not seen a big business doing waterfall for a very long time. The more you code, the more agile matters.
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I trialled the cloud version of Jira + Agile last year (I can't believe it was 7 months ago, my life is speeding past way too fast). I wasn't too sure about it. But I've just installed the on-premise version, which is essentially free for 10 users, and am giving it another go.
Installing it was ridiculously easy, even for a Linux novice like me. I downloaded and installed the minimal install of CentOS (first time I've done that), and then you just download and run the Jira installer. You then just point your browser to port 8080 on the server and you're off. It took me a little while to work out how to open the firewall on CentOS, but after that I was flying.
I'm going to try and use it to manage my new ERP project.
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Awesome, how are you liking it so far?
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Not bad. I have an issue with how to manage sub-tasks. For example, one task is to buy a new server. I've broken that down into about a dozen sub-tasks (1. review HP Quickspecs; 2. Obtain quotes; 3. Raise purchase order) etc etc. The problem is all these sub-tasks are visible to everyone on the Kanban board and it becomes really cluttered. I want to see the sub-tasks that are in progress, but hide those that are in the To Do list.
I guess it's finding that compromise between using it for the whole project team, and using it for the my own personal day to day to-do list.
I have this problem with all off-the-shelf packages though. I wrote my own Kanban project management system, but it doesn't have anywhere near the functionality of something like Jira and I don't have the time or the skill to develop it into something good. However, if I have an issue with my own system I have the power (if not always the time) to just change the code to make it do what I want. With a 3rd party system I have to spend hours searching forums, and often find out that what I want is simply not possible). I find that lack of power over my destiny frustrating
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One quick question for you @scottalanmiller as you're pretty good on Linux databases. Jira uses HSQLDB (HyperSQL DataBase) by default, but they say you should never use this in production as it corrupts easily. I don't really want to spend the time installing another DB. Are they being overcautious?
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Also, Three years of support is just $20 per product.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
One quick question for you @scottalanmiller as you're pretty good on Linux databases. Jira uses HSQLDB (HyperSQL DataBase) by default, but they say you should never use this in production as it corrupts easily. I don't really want to spend the time installing another DB. Are they being overcautious?
Yes, using that is fine for a very small team.
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I've decided that whilst Jira might suit me, it's likely to be a bit too complicated and unfriendly for my inexperienced, non-IT colleagues. So I'm planning on using Trello.com instead, which has less functionality but is very simple and looks real pretty.
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Jira is nice and powerful but I agree, it can be daunting for people not used to it or anyone that uses it only occasionally. It is designed around being used by a full time development team who use it day in and day out and are very technical to begin with.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Trello looks interesting. I have never seen that before. Is it always free? How is it monetized?
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It's freemium. $45 per user per year if you want a few extra features.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Trello looks interesting. I have never seen that before. Is it always free? How is it monetized?
I trialed it. Did not find it useful.
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Do you use something else instead?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
It's freemium. $45 per user per year if you want a few extra features.
Not too bad. I'd have to see what the extra features are.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Do you use something else instead?
No. So likely the problem was that I was not in true need of project management software.
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Trello is good, but I think I'm going to end up developing my own application based on the things I like from both Trello and Jira, plus a few of my own features.
I have a real problem with using off-the-shelf software, which is a weakness of mine. It's my controlling nature.
I'm a hypocrite because I discourage other people in my firm from using bespoke software, but I end up writing all my own.
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We used JIRA for a long time until we replaced it with something internal when we bought out another company. We switched to internal Git as well, but Stash was pretty cool, though GitHub's private repo plans aren't that bad and I always liked GitHub's functionality much better.
Plus we used some other Atlassian stuff as well, really though they make agile easy as pretty much possible, but like I said, we've replaced them internally, and eventually we'll offer these things to the public as well.
Kanban is great not just for planning, but even just for an overall view of a project if you've got your specific tasks and details elsewhere, especially useful for huge projects like an ERP.
As far as IDEs go, we use PhpStorm (cross platform), WebStorm (for our JS people), and Visual Studio (for our one person unfortunate enough to manage legacy stuff we inherited).
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All my internal applications are written in VBScript for classic ASP. I have started a book on C# though.
I started using Trello just for my ERP project, and yeah, I'm all about Kanban & Agile.
