Fax: Sangoma FAXstation
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
YOUR final mile has to be neither PRI nor SIP. If the final mile is PRI, it's legacy fax, not FoIP or IP at all. If it goes over SIP, it can't store and forward like they claim.
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Our out going faxes are typically signed contracts and things like it. Those providing the contracts don't have a digital option for signing, so we are stuck printing them out, signing and faxing back.. so yeah.. kinda stuck there. Of course we could scan them, and fax via an email service, then you need an email gateway that talks SIP to send the outbound faxes - I've never looked into that.
Well there is always an option to digitally sign. Anything that can be send via fax can, by definition, be digitally signed. You can't have one without guaranteeing the other. Simplest solution there might be an iPad or similar to do the signing. That might make it not cheap, but it doesn't force you into paper at any point.
Right, email to FoIP gateway is an option.
Of course, I could capture a signature, and just paste that on a digital copy.. then fax it back, all remaining digital on my side. Management has balked at how many extra steps that is compared to just print, sign, and fax back.
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
I'm not saying that it is a good solution for you, but worth looking into. Someone like voip.ms has a $4.95/mo single DID, dual concurrent, unlimited incoming line option, that should handle 3,000 pages a month without much problem. Same two lines that you have now. Would be cheap to test and see if it worked for you.
I need 16K pages a month.. not 3K.
I'll have to look into it with VOIP.ms... though, the last time I looked, the flat fee lines were only for consumer, not business customers.
voip.ms doesn't offer consumer or business plans. Just unlimited and per minute plans.
voip.ms also offers incoming fax handling so that it never has to hit FoIP too...
No more using traditional fax machines. Receive faxes in PDF format on any of your DIDs or have them forwarded to your preferred email address. Files supported: PDF, TXT, JPG, GIF, PNG and TIF.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Our out going faxes are typically signed contracts and things like it. Those providing the contracts don't have a digital option for signing, so we are stuck printing them out, signing and faxing back.. so yeah.. kinda stuck there. Of course we could scan them, and fax via an email service, then you need an email gateway that talks SIP to send the outbound faxes - I've never looked into that.
Well there is always an option to digitally sign. Anything that can be send via fax can, by definition, be digitally signed. You can't have one without guaranteeing the other. Simplest solution there might be an iPad or similar to do the signing. That might make it not cheap, but it doesn't force you into paper at any point.
Right, email to FoIP gateway is an option.
Of course, I could capture a signature, and just paste that on a digital copy.. then fax it back, all remaining digital on my side. Management has balked at how many extra steps that is compared to just print, sign, and fax back.
They've balked that it is.... the same or fewer?
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
I'm not saying that it is a good solution for you, but worth looking into. Someone like voip.ms has a $4.95/mo single DID, dual concurrent, unlimited incoming line option, that should handle 3,000 pages a month without much problem. Same two lines that you have now. Would be cheap to test and see if it worked for you.
I need 16K pages a month.. not 3K.
I'll have to look into it with VOIP.ms... though, the last time I looked, the flat fee lines were only for consumer, not business customers.
voip.ms doesn't offer consumer or business plans. Just unlimited and per minute plans.
https://i.imgur.com/srtEDki.png
OK I said consumer instead of residential. I'm guessing that the expectation is that you will have a fairly low usage. My use of 600+ mins a day would likely make me an outlier in the residential sector - though certainly not unheard of.
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
I'm not saying that it is a good solution for you, but worth looking into. Someone like voip.ms has a $4.95/mo single DID, dual concurrent, unlimited incoming line option, that should handle 3,000 pages a month without much problem. Same two lines that you have now. Would be cheap to test and see if it worked for you.
I need 16K pages a month.. not 3K.
I'll have to look into it with VOIP.ms... though, the last time I looked, the flat fee lines were only for consumer, not business customers.
voip.ms doesn't offer consumer or business plans. Just unlimited and per minute plans.
https://i.imgur.com/srtEDki.png
OK I said consumer instead of residential. I'm guessing that the expectation is that you will have a fairly low usage. My use of 600+ mins a day would likely make me an outlier in the residential sector - though certainly not unheard of.
What page is that on?
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
I'm not saying that it is a good solution for you, but worth looking into. Someone like voip.ms has a $4.95/mo single DID, dual concurrent, unlimited incoming line option, that should handle 3,000 pages a month without much problem. Same two lines that you have now. Would be cheap to test and see if it worked for you.
I need 16K pages a month.. not 3K.
I'll have to look into it with VOIP.ms... though, the last time I looked, the flat fee lines were only for consumer, not business customers.
voip.ms doesn't offer consumer or business plans. Just unlimited and per minute plans.
https://i.imgur.com/srtEDki.png
OK I said consumer instead of residential. I'm guessing that the expectation is that you will have a fairly low usage. My use of 600+ mins a day would likely make me an outlier in the residential sector - though certainly not unheard of.
What page is that on?
When you purchase a DID.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
I'm not saying that it is a good solution for you, but worth looking into. Someone like voip.ms has a $4.95/mo single DID, dual concurrent, unlimited incoming line option, that should handle 3,000 pages a month without much problem. Same two lines that you have now. Would be cheap to test and see if it worked for you.
I need 16K pages a month.. not 3K.
I'll have to look into it with VOIP.ms... though, the last time I looked, the flat fee lines were only for consumer, not business customers.
voip.ms doesn't offer consumer or business plans. Just unlimited and per minute plans.
https://i.imgur.com/srtEDki.png
OK I said consumer instead of residential. I'm guessing that the expectation is that you will have a fairly low usage. My use of 600+ mins a day would likely make me an outlier in the residential sector - though certainly not unheard of.
What page is that on?
When you purchase a DID.
I just went through two different paths to that and never found that page. Or a page with that styling.
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
What are you talking about? Sangoma could use SIP to talk to AT&T for their PSTN connection. I don't know, do you know?
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
What are you talking about? Sangoma could use SIP to talk to AT&T for their PSTN connection. I don't know, do you know?
That's not the last mile. But if they do that, they'd be forced to use T.38... making their marketing a lie. They can't have it both ways. They talk about their reliability by specifically avoiding that. They can't then just go use it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
I'm not saying that it is a good solution for you, but worth looking into. Someone like voip.ms has a $4.95/mo single DID, dual concurrent, unlimited incoming line option, that should handle 3,000 pages a month without much problem. Same two lines that you have now. Would be cheap to test and see if it worked for you.
I need 16K pages a month.. not 3K.
I'll have to look into it with VOIP.ms... though, the last time I looked, the flat fee lines were only for consumer, not business customers.
voip.ms doesn't offer consumer or business plans. Just unlimited and per minute plans.
https://i.imgur.com/srtEDki.png
OK I said consumer instead of residential. I'm guessing that the expectation is that you will have a fairly low usage. My use of 600+ mins a day would likely make me an outlier in the residential sector - though certainly not unheard of.
What page is that on?
When you purchase a DID.
I just went through two different paths to that and never found that page. Or a page with that styling.
Here's the top half of the page
https://i.imgur.com/gP4fe8C.png -
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
What are you talking about? Sangoma could use SIP to talk to AT&T for their PSTN connection. I don't know, do you know?
That's not the last mile. But if they do that, they'd be forced to use T.38... making their marketing a lie. They can't have it both ways. They talk about their reliability by specifically avoiding that. They can't then just go use it.
no, nothing forces them to use T.38, but I do agree that your comment makes it much less likely. So it's likely that Sagnoma has PRI lines running their fax machines.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
What are you talking about? Sangoma could use SIP to talk to AT&T for their PSTN connection. I don't know, do you know?
That's not the last mile. But if they do that, they'd be forced to use T.38... making their marketing a lie. They can't have it both ways. They talk about their reliability by specifically avoiding that. They can't then just go use it.
no, nothing forces them to use T.38, but I do agree that your comment makes it much less likely. So it's likely that Sagnoma has PRI lines running their fax machines.
Yes, they have to in order for their service to not be completely unreliable. Either they are stuck using PRI, or they are stuck using traditional FoIP to the PSTN and they'd give up the entire point of the system. If they were going to do that, you'd just do it in the first place and cut them out of the middle as they'd be doing nothing at all.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
no, nothing forces them to use T.38...
T.38 is the only reliable fax protocol for SIP.
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Here is their quote: "FAXStation is Sangoma’s error-free fax service, designed to address the T.38 fax limitations..."
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Here is their quote: "FAXStation is Sangoma’s error-free fax service, designed to address the T.38 fax limitations..."
LOL I get that. But fax issues happen all the time, and don't have to be related to FoIP at all.
We had problems in the past sending faxes to specific clients. The best we could figure was that it was a problem in the way the two different brands talked faxes...
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Here is their quote: "FAXStation is Sangoma’s error-free fax service, designed to address the T.38 fax limitations..."
LOL I get that. But fax issues happen all the time, and don't have to be related to FoIP at all.
They claim error-free and addressing T.38 limitations. That means that SIP isn't an option. They can't use SIP, period, and even casually attempt either of those claims. T.38 is the most advanced way to use SIP.
Error free is because it is PRI, they can claim that whatever goes through is the fax, it might not be error free to a human, but it is error free to the computer because it hands over to analogue and the errors are on the analogue post-Sangoma portion. So while it's pushing it, they have a limited means of saying it.
The statement above has to mean that they aren't using VoIP / SIP. It's that simple.
