How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two
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@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
No doubt. I waited too long before hiring. I've been working 7 days a week about 17 hours per day... Not fun.
Yeah, probably too long. But the longer you do it, the more time you have to bank the money to pay the next person with less risk.
Yeah, you have to either be prepared to get a loan to cover their salary, or have it in the bank already. You might find your own salary going down, possibly significantly, while you continue to grow the business.
This is often the case. Employees are expensive. Lots of people never get back to where they were before hiring.
once you hire, there are a ton of new or at least significantly higher fees/taxes/etc you have to pay that you didn't before.
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@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
No doubt. I waited too long before hiring. I've been working 7 days a week about 17 hours per day... Not fun.
Yeah, probably too long. But the longer you do it, the more time you have to bank the money to pay the next person with less risk.
Yeah, you have to either be prepared to get a loan to cover their salary, or have it in the bank already. You might find your own salary going down, possibly significantly, while you continue to grow the business.
This is often the case. Employees are expensive. Lots of people never get back to where they were before hiring.
once you hire, there are a ton of new or at least significantly higher fees/taxes/etc you have to pay that you didn't before.
Unemployment taxes, payroll costs, workman's comp, etc.
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@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
No doubt. I waited too long before hiring. I've been working 7 days a week about 17 hours per day... Not fun.
Yeah, probably too long. But the longer you do it, the more time you have to bank the money to pay the next person with less risk.
Yeah, you have to either be prepared to get a loan to cover their salary, or have it in the bank already. You might find your own salary going down, possibly significantly, while you continue to grow the business.
This is often the case. Employees are expensive. Lots of people never get back to where they were before hiring.
once you hire, there are a ton of new or at least significantly higher fees/taxes/etc you have to pay that you didn't before.
Unemployment taxes, payroll costs, workman's comp, etc.
I'm 'very aware' of that... It sucks...
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@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
No doubt. I waited too long before hiring. I've been working 7 days a week about 17 hours per day... Not fun.
Yeah, probably too long. But the longer you do it, the more time you have to bank the money to pay the next person with less risk.
Yeah, you have to either be prepared to get a loan to cover their salary, or have it in the bank already. You might find your own salary going down, possibly significantly, while you continue to grow the business.
This is often the case. Employees are expensive. Lots of people never get back to where they were before hiring.
once you hire, there are a ton of new or at least significantly higher fees/taxes/etc you have to pay that you didn't before.
Unemployment taxes, payroll costs, workman's comp, etc.
I'm 'very aware' of that... It sucks...
NTG was once hit to pay unemployment... for a currently employed employee!!
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@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
No doubt. I waited too long before hiring. I've been working 7 days a week about 17 hours per day... Not fun.
Yeah, probably too long. But the longer you do it, the more time you have to bank the money to pay the next person with less risk.
Yeah, you have to either be prepared to get a loan to cover their salary, or have it in the bank already. You might find your own salary going down, possibly significantly, while you continue to grow the business.
This is often the case. Employees are expensive. Lots of people never get back to where they were before hiring.
once you hire, there are a ton of new or at least significantly higher fees/taxes/etc you have to pay that you didn't before.
Unemployment taxes, payroll costs, workman's comp, etc.
I'm 'very aware' of that... It sucks...
NTG was once hit to pay unemployment... for a currently employed employee!!
so what? the employee lied about being fired? or the gov't just f'ed up?
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@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
No doubt. I waited too long before hiring. I've been working 7 days a week about 17 hours per day... Not fun.
Yeah, probably too long. But the longer you do it, the more time you have to bank the money to pay the next person with less risk.
Yeah, you have to either be prepared to get a loan to cover their salary, or have it in the bank already. You might find your own salary going down, possibly significantly, while you continue to grow the business.
This is often the case. Employees are expensive. Lots of people never get back to where they were before hiring.
once you hire, there are a ton of new or at least significantly higher fees/taxes/etc you have to pay that you didn't before.
Unemployment taxes, payroll costs, workman's comp, etc.
I'm 'very aware' of that... It sucks...
NTG was once hit to pay unemployment... for a currently employed employee!!
so what? the employee lied about being fired? or the gov't just f'ed up?
Employee actually lost their other job. So the government just hit up all "former" employeres for money, even ones that the person currently worked for. Our CFO called in and was like "Let me get this straight, we have to pay unemployment AND employment on the same person" And the state was like "WTF?""
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@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
And the state was like "WTF?""
Eh?
So what was the outcome?
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@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
And the state was like "WTF?""
Eh?
So what was the outcome?
We didn't have to pay. But what a freaking mess. It shows how little diligence is put into asking people to pay!
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@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
And the state was like "WTF?""
Eh?
So what was the outcome?
We didn't have to pay. But what a freaking mess. It shows how little diligence is put into asking people to pay!
But the guy applied for unemployment to get the train rolling?
Or was he part time with you and entitled to unemployment less his part time earnings?
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@ccwtech said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
So essentially unless you have a large amount of capital, the small I.T. business owner is pretty much screwed?
Large MSP's generally begin with a large split off of an IT department from a larger company. So there is a rolling 50 to 100 IT stagg joining the new firm and established revenue from the parent company to continue providing IT services.
All the Growth Methods MSP programs in the world will never bring you from the small shop to this level. If these programs worked you would see less programs and those same people growing large global MSP's. Large MSP's are created by deal makers they put these companies together. People who know enough about IT to navigate the board room pitches.
A large IT business, like any business, is not something a tech savvy IT consultant would ever create. Every MSP I have ever worked with purses deals like this...
1.) Company has 3500 employees, 40 IT Staff
2.) MSP engages to onboard IT staff, showing the customer an increase in agility, increased resources and decreased benefits and soft dollar overhead
3.) MSP onboards all IT Staff with a commitment to not fire anyone in the first year.
4.) Consolidation and employee shifting begins within the MSP while the customer realizes a more streamlined support structure with the MSP's existing 250 staff and processes.I think you are far better off looking to form a small boutique consulting shop and create clear financial goals than to pursue an MSP.
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Another caveat with the Small Biz MSP...
Small businesses under 100 employees, however successful the company appears, are general not able to make sound decisions regarding IT. You end up giving more for less because they dont understand your value, or you spend 80% of your effort getting business instead of providing service and making money.
Consulting puts you in a more earnest position once you actually have a customer, and a more long term position.
However, small businesses are not seeking our IT consulting. Its a hard marketing proposition. They are googling for cloud services they can control themselves to replace the much hated IT guy they are dealing with.
It can be done. I think I remember reading even on NTG that they started during the IT boom and had the advantage of taking on an incumbent customer base.
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@bigbear said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@dashrender said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
And the state was like "WTF?""
Eh?
So what was the outcome?
We didn't have to pay. But what a freaking mess. It shows how little diligence is put into asking people to pay!
But the guy applied for unemployment to get the train rolling?
Or was he part time with you and entitled to unemployment less his part time earnings?
He was part time wiht us, he had applied for partial unemployment.
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@bigbear said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
It can be done. I think I remember reading even on NTG that they started during the IT boom and had the advantage of taking on an incumbent customer base.
No, we started as a software shop and moved into IT gradually.
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@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@bigbear said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
It can be done. I think I remember reading even on NTG that they started during the IT boom and had the advantage of taking on an incumbent customer base.
No, we started as a software shop and moved into IT gradually.
I think it is supportive of the idea that everything outside of IT service is 10 times easier to sell than IT service (or consulting) and then you can expand your relationship to take over IT.
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Based on my own personal experience, I don't agree with a few points here. I've grown my own MSP business without debt beyond just myself. As a one man shop there are a lot of tasks you can find for an entry level person. Your contract rates don't change, but you don't have to stop what you're doing for the easy tasks.
I also don't think partnerships are a good way to go for businesses of any type. Read about all the case studies and you'll find that a 51% to 49% split is way better than 50/50. At the end of the day there are some decisions that have to be made, and there needs to be a final authority.
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@mike-davis said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
Based on my own personal experience, I don't agree with a few points here. I've grown my own MSP business without debt beyond just myself. As a one man shop there are a lot of tasks you can find for an entry level person. Your contract rates don't change, but you don't have to stop what you're doing for the easy tasks.
I also don't think partnerships are a good way to go for businesses of any type. Read about all the case studies and you'll find that a 51% to 49% split is way better than 50/50. At the end of the day there are some decisions that have to be made, and there needs to be a final authority.
The problem with the 51/49 split is that everyone wants to be the 51%.
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@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
The problem with the 51/49 split is that everyone wants to be the 51%.
Right. If you own 100% because you are a one man shop, I would argue that you don't need someone at your level, you need someone entry level at first. Even years down the line, you may need someone at your technical level or higher, but as the business owner, you need to work on the business, not in the business.
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@mike-davis said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
@scottalanmiller said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
The problem with the 51/49 split is that everyone wants to be the 51%.
Right. If you own 100% because you are a one man shop, I would argue that you don't need someone at your level, you need someone entry level at first. Even years down the line, you may need someone at your technical level or higher, but as the business owner, you need to work on the business, not in the business.
Right, I was thinking more of the "merging with someone else at your level" which is a handy option as they can bring their own customers and work with them. But you get the conflict of everyone wanting to be the boss.
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A small "MSP" has the chances a rock band has of both sustainability let alone large scale success.
Its got me thinking, and maybe a good topic for another thread, what is the "hot business" now that is accessible for a small startup. Something where customers are actually seeking out solutions the way small offices needed a server, email and netowrk help in the late 90's and early 2000's?
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@bigbear said in How to Grow from a One Man Operation to Two:
A small "MSP" has the chances a rock band has of both sustainability let alone large scale success.
Its got me thinking, and maybe a good topic for another thread, what is the "hot business" now that is accessible for a small startup. Something where customers are actually seeking out solutions the way small offices needed a server, email and netowrk help in the late 90's and early 2000's?
If we only knew.
