MS Licensing - 3rd
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@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
Does "accessing" the computer only mean using the desktop?
A simple answer here is... Microsoft never, ever means that as a special case. That's an SMB myth that I've only ever seen in Spiceworks. People there often state licensing as if the desktop environment is a special case and using a different technology for the GUI, like a web interface, changes the licensing. But there is nothing like that. Remotely connecting to the machine to get any access to it, unless explicitely allowed, is covered under accessing it.
The desktop environment is just a GUI. A web page served from it is just a GUI. Generically, they are all the same thing.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@tim_g said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
No question about it regarding Windows 10, it's clear as day you cannot virtualize it on a server.
But for Win7, it's almost not even up for debate being that it's not even mentioned in the EULA.
Windows 7 covers it too, by allowing only a single VM per machine. No other VMs can exist on the machine on which Windows 7 is a VM. So while you can virtualize it on your desktop, or on a server, it consumes the entire use of the server, defeating all VDI use cases, but allowing you to virtualize in order to use certain backup or storage tools, for example.
I didn't read that anywhere in the Win7 EULA.
The closest thing I seen was "you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed computer."
Which to me means for each Win7 license, you can only have one VM. For each additional VM, you need another license. However, you may have as many Win7 VMs as you want on a single hypervisor. -
@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
No other VMs can exist on the machine on which Windows 7 is a VM.
This is not true from what I understand, if you have SA you're able to install up to 4 VMs (I think?) on one computer
SA is what allows that, not the Windows 7 licensing.
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@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
No other VMs can exist on the machine on which Windows 7 is a VM.
This is not true from what I understand, if you have SA you're able to install up to 4 VMs (I think?) on one computer
SA is what allows that, not the Windows 7 licensing.
SA for Windows 10, not SA for Windows 7.
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@tim_g said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@tim_g said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
No question about it regarding Windows 10, it's clear as day you cannot virtualize it on a server.
But for Win7, it's almost not even up for debate being that it's not even mentioned in the EULA.
Windows 7 covers it too, by allowing only a single VM per machine. No other VMs can exist on the machine on which Windows 7 is a VM. So while you can virtualize it on your desktop, or on a server, it consumes the entire use of the server, defeating all VDI use cases, but allowing you to virtualize in order to use certain backup or storage tools, for example.
I didn't read that anywhere in the Win7 EULA.
The closest thing I seen was "you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed computer."
Which to me means for each Win7 license, you can only have one VM. For each additional VM, you need another license. However, you may have as many Win7 VMs as you want on a single hypervisor.Microsoft has a licensing doc that explains it. Just search "Windows 7 vdi licensing" and the MS PDF is the first hit. Can't link it because of stupid Google.
@Chris has dug into it many times, though. Trust me, it is well covered. Even if you don't see it, MS has solid licensing around it.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
SA for Windows 10, not SA for Windows 7.
So confusing, it was also my understanding that SA doesn't apply to specific versions. SA applies to any Windows Desktop OS. Obviously when Windows 7 was the latest, the rules may have been different. But now, with SA, you should be able to install up to (4) Win7 VMs on a single piece of hardware
At least when we were audited last year, we had this exact scenario and the auditor agreed with me lol
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
No other VMs can exist on the machine on which Windows 7 is a VM.
This is not true from what I understand, if you have SA you're able to install up to 4 VMs (I think?) on one computer
SA is what allows that, not the Windows 7 licensing.
SA for Windows 10, not SA for Windows 7.
Isn't SA SA. If you have a valid SA today on your OEM Windows 7 licenses you can use Windows 10 on that machine... then using the SA rights you can downgrade to Windows 7 and get the 4 VMs rights of SA.
If you don't agree, please let us know why.
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@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
SA for Windows 10, not SA for Windows 7.
So confusing, it was also my understanding that SA doesn't apply to specific versions. SA applies to any Windows Desktop OS. Obviously when Windows 7 was the latest, the rules may have been different. But now, with SA, you should be able to install up to (4) Win7 VMs on a single piece of hardware
At least when we were audited last year, we had this exact scenario and the auditor agreed with me lol
That's not really telling, though. Everyone complains that the auditors know less than anyone. That they thought it was okay is so disconnected from the licensing that it really tells us nothing.
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@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
No other VMs can exist on the machine on which Windows 7 is a VM.
This is not true from what I understand, if you have SA you're able to install up to 4 VMs (I think?) on one computer
SA is what allows that, not the Windows 7 licensing.
SA for Windows 10, not SA for Windows 7.
Isn't SA SA. If you have a valid SA today on your OEM Windows 7 licenses you can use Windows 10 on that machine... then using the SA rights you can downgrade to Windows 7 and get the 4 VMs rights of SA.
If you don't agree, please let us know why.
I'm not aware of anything like that and if you feel that SA rights provide alteration rights like that, you will have the reference for that. I don't agree because it seems unlikely, given you'd have to have something that stated it explicitely Do you have not? If not, that's the "why" I think it doesn't apply.
Downgrade rights are not related to "applying modern rights to old systems". That yo uhave downgrade implies nothing like you are saying. That doesn't mean that you are wrong, but if you are right, it is not coming from what you are saying.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
That's not really telling, though. Everyone complains that the auditors know less than anyone. That they thought it was okay is so disconnected from the licensing that it really tells us nothing.
Totally agree with this. Same concept applies to many scenarios in life... Calling customer support? Call until you get someone to do what you want.
Though, I'm fairly confident, in this case, that it's true. I researched this a LOT before we bought SA for our programming guys that needed to run multiple VMs for different software.
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None of this really helps the OP, because SA does not get you Remote Access rights at all... and I'm sure there are rules that make it very clear that you cant skip server OSes just because you have SA and RDS CALs
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@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
None of this really helps the OP, because SA does not get you Remote Access rights at all... and I'm sure there are rules that make it very clear that you cant skip server OSes just because you have SA and RDS CALs
Actualy it does, remote access rights are one of hte largest features of SA.
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@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
None of this really helps the OP, because SA does not get you Remote Access rights at all... and I'm sure there are rules that make it very clear that you cant skip server OSes just because you have SA and RDS CALs
What do you mean skip server OSes? SA and RDS CALs in this case would only be applying to the desktop OS, not the server.
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@scottalanmiller Ah, I just assumed it didn't, we weren't getting SA for remote access reasons so I didn't really read into that portion of it.
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@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
What do you mean skip server OSes? SA and RDS CALs in this case would only be applying to the desktop OS, not the server.
I meant it as deploying the W10 would be skipping the purchase of another server license
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@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
None of this really helps the OP, because SA does not get you Remote Access rights at all... and I'm sure there are rules that make it very clear that you cant skip server OSes just because you have SA and RDS CALs
What do you mean skip server OSes? SA and RDS CALs in this case would only be applying to the desktop OS, not the server.
RDS can never apply to a desktop, only to a server. There is conceptually no such thing as an RDS for a desktop, not sure what you are picturing.
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@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
What do you mean skip server OSes? SA and RDS CALs in this case would only be applying to the desktop OS, not the server.
I meant it as deploying the W10 would be skipping the purchase of another server OS license
If you get some form of VDI icensing, you can skip server licensing. No server licensing is needed for VDI. Server licensing is just generally cheaper thatn VDI.
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@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
What do you mean skip server OSes? SA and RDS CALs in this case would only be applying to the desktop OS, not the server.
I meant it as deploying the W10 would be skipping the purchase of another server license
Correct, you wouldn't need a Windows Server license if you are running your app inside Windows 10 VMs using SA RDS CALs.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
What do you mean skip server OSes? SA and RDS CALs in this case would only be applying to the desktop OS, not the server.
I meant it as deploying the W10 would be skipping the purchase of another server OS license
If you get some form of VDI icensing, you can skip server licensing. No server licensing is needed for VDI. Server licensing is just generally cheaper thatn VDI.
Now this I don't get.
A Window Server license is $800, that gives you two user's worth. SA for a machine in your environment (assuming you qualify) is $125 for 2 years per machine. And RDS license is like $50/user. It's going to take several years to climb over the $800 cost.
So what am I missing?
Of course, if you're user count is high, Datacenter licensing on Windows Sever will likely be the least expensive option.
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@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@bnrstnr said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
@dashrender said in MS Licensing - 3rd:
What do you mean skip server OSes? SA and RDS CALs in this case would only be applying to the desktop OS, not the server.
I meant it as deploying the W10 would be skipping the purchase of another server license
Correct, you wouldn't need a Windows Server license if you are running your app inside Windows 10 VMs using SA RDS CALs.
Except no such thing exists, so obviously that isn't possible.
