Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?



  • I am looking into physical access control systems for the SMB I work for. I am looking to secure external and some internal doors. I have worked with HID in the past but would like to know what recommendations ML members might have. Is anyone using/working with access control systems and would recommend looking at or steering clear of certain ones?

    TIA.



  • I use Net2 from https://www.paxton-access.com/
    The "door controllers" are IP based.
    I run the "backend" server as a Win 7 vm



  • @fateknollogee Thanks! I will check them out too.



  • I would think, that if IP based, you will need to keep it separate from your network. on power backukp

    worse thing to have is a control system that fails when you do a test or when the power goes out... and you can't access the area...



  • @gjacobse said in Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?:

    I would think, that if IP based, you will need to keep it separate from your network. on power backukp

    worse thing to have is a control system that fails when you do a test or when the power goes out... and you can't access the area...

    That is a good point. In my past dealings, the doors still had a physical lock and key and would still allow for exiting, just not entry during complete power loss (unless using the physical key).



  • And thinking more about it,.. your reader may have power during the outage if POE,.. but what of the door release. many still need AC to power, so you can card swipe the reader all day, but if no power, the latch isn't going to release....



  • @gjacobse Don't over think this stuff.

    The reader & door strike are powered by the door controller module which in turn is powered by a power supply.
    Put your power supply on a UPS, problem solved!



  • @fateknollogee said in Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?:

    @gjacobse Don't over think this stuff.

    The reader & door strike are powered by the door controller module which in turn is powered by a power supply.
    Put your power supply on a UPS, problem solved!

    Sure, but it could be an issue after natural or other disaster where power is out for an extended period of time and exceeds the UPS capacity.



  • We use Pacom-GMS software with keycards, autolocks. The software runs on a win7 vm.



  • @wrx7m said in Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?:

    Sure, but it could be an issue after natural or other disaster where power is out for an extended period of time and exceeds the UPS capacity.

    Why is this a problem? Since this same condition would affect any other Access Control system in the same manner.



  • @fateknollogee said in Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?:

    @wrx7m said in Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?:

    Sure, but it could be an issue after natural or other disaster where power is out for an extended period of time and exceeds the UPS capacity.

    Why is this a problem? Since this same condition would affect any other Access Control system in the same manner.

    It isn't a problem. It is a consideration vs. just having standard old school locks with physical keys.



  • We use ADT and their Brivo system for all our offices. Since it's alarm and access it may be overpriced for the SMB. The door controls all have battery backup in them and I have a ups on it too



  • Trained attack dogs off-leash in the server room works well. Cheap too.



  • Card systems are a royal PITA

    Cheap and effective are pin code locks

    What are you trying to secure? What's the goal?



  • @mattspeller said in Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?:

    Card systems are a royal PITA

    Cheap and effective are pin code locks

    What are you trying to secure? What's the goal?

    My response to you would be

    Nun-ya



  • @MattSpeller - We currently have an intercom system (SIP) on the front door that is integrated with our phone system. We have a hunt group of users that get a simultaneous ring when anybody needs entry. This would mostly be employees entering in the morning or returning from 3 scheduled breaks. It also includes random solicitors or actual appointments so I don't see the intercom disappearing, just allowing access for employees to enter without disturbing the people in said hunt group.

    Also, access to certain storage areas and the server room could be logged. Not a guarantee that it was the actual user, but better than the anyone could have a physical key or PIN code scenario.

    We also have cameras that would aide in verifying users are accessing with their own cards.



  • I spent nearly 8 years doing this professionally

    Someone remind me about this thread tomorrow afternoon



  • Stay clear from Marel. It sucks.

    I was trying to do the same thing last year until the top brass pulled it off of me and gave it to Maintenance. Heh, whatever.



  • @jaredbusch said in Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?:

    I spent nearly 8 years doing this professionally

    Someone remind me about this thread tomorrow afternoon

    @JaredBusch - Friendly reminder to comment 🙂



  • @jaredbusch Its Roughly tommorow afternoon....



  • I can no longer recommend a specific brand (too out of touch), but I can give a insight on types of devices and methodology.

    First, all access control systems that you will want will be computer controlled because you want logging. There are self contained systems out there, but you lose the logging that you want. Those are nothing more than fancy locks with hundreds of keys. I would have to dive back into brands to say more on that subject.

    All of these systems run on normal A/C power, but all also have standard sealed lead acid batteries to keep the control board running. This is standard. What many people do not properly plan is how to power the locking mechanism itself during a power outage.

    For the locking mechanism, your have two basic choices:

    Electric Door Strikes:
    0_1506114271607_f37c7ecf-5e6f-415c-a67a-20c597684b89-image.png

    Maglocks:
    0_1506114428034_e4186c30-96fc-45ad-b47d-9b9620771455-image.png

    Electric door strikes are the simplest and can be both fail safe as well as fail secure. By this I mean without power the unit can be lock or unlocked. Most are fail secure because it is the cheapest way to make them, and they only require power to become unlocked.

    Maglocks on the other hand are never fail secure because a power failure means no power to run the electromagnet that secures everything. You can of course provide battery backup for this as I mentioned above.

    Electric strikes can be considered by many as a poorer solution because they still rely on the normal doorknob tongue mechanic that a standard door has, retaining that weakness of being the only point to secure the door. With proper planning such as oversize shielding on the outside to prevent tampering, this is fairly cheaply overcome.

    Maglocks have the benefit of being extremely hard to force. You will bend a steel door before breaking plate free of the maglock if it is properly installed. The biggest weakness of maglocks is that they can be defeated with a piece of paper folded in half and placed between the plate and the magnet. Of course, you would be hard pressed to stick a piece of paper that will not fall on the unit without being noticed in most places that actually care about their security.

    The greatest weakness of all of these systems is usually the egress device. Very few people buy systems that you have to card to both enter and exit. Usually they secure the entrance and use a motion detector to cause an unlock to happen automatically when someone walks up to exit. You can defeat this by exhaling on a tissue and waving it under the door with a hanger. Your fancy glass double doors with the air gap between the doors makes this even more trivial.



  • I would highly recommend a system that uses proximity cards because anything else is just a pain in the ass for users.

    If some current system (recall I am 15 years out of touch on this) supports modern NFC standards, you may be able to have a phone app to allow entry. I assume this exists, but I have no idea.



  • If you have a specific quesiton after that wall of info, just ask.



  • @jaredbusch Thanks for the info. We currently have a mag lock on the front door integrated with intercom/phone system and you are definitely right about the power failure affecting the lock. The door is a push bar that raises a bolt inside the door and during business hours we have to set the push bar all the way in, which allows the mag lock to hold and release it. After-hours, someone has to manually set it to the out position and unlocking the mag lock won't even allow it to open and forcing someone to use a physical key.

    So I don't know how we can log after-hours access when using the existing mag lock setup so we would have to see what else we could do.



  • @jaredbusch said in Phyiscal Access Control Systems - Recommendations?:

    I would highly recommend a system that uses proximity cards because anything else is just a pain in the ass for users.

    If some current system (recall I am 15 years out of touch on this) supports modern NFC standards, you may be able to have a phone app to allow entry. I assume this exists, but I have no idea.

    I did see some systems from HID that had mobile device access -
    https://www.hidglobal.com/solutions/hid-mobile-access


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