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    Shadow Copies Are Not A Backup Replacement

    IT Discussion
    shadow copy logical volume managers windows microsoft filesystems snapshots backup storage
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    • Bill Kindle
      Bill Kindle last edited by scottalanmiller

      I see this all the time. People will setup Shadow Copies as a replacement for their normal backups, and then are shocked when they run out of space on their under-provisioned servers. And on top of that, they create multiple copies per day!

      I need to add "Shadow Copies are not a replacement for backups!" saying to the "Snapshots are not backups!" line I use all the time.

      Aside from all of that, what is this forum running? Looks pretty slick.

      thanksajdotcom 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
      • thanksajdotcom
        thanksajdotcom @Bill Kindle last edited by

        @Bill-Kindle 'bout time you got here! I was getting worried! You are spot on with that. Shadow copies are great if someone loses or accidentally deletes a file. Not a replacement for a good backup or especially DR plan.

        Bill Kindle 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Bill Kindle
          Bill Kindle @thanksajdotcom last edited by

          @ajstringham Just was invited today. This platform seems really nice. Just watched the Poop Splash video 🙂

          thanksajdotcom 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Bill Kindle
            Bill Kindle @thanksajdotcom last edited by

            @ajstringham Shadow copies are good for one thing IMHO, they help you restore a file faster without going to your backup tapes / disks when that quick oops happens. But beyond that, worthless.

            thanksajdotcom 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • thanksajdotcom
              thanksajdotcom @Bill Kindle last edited by

              @Bill-Kindle Site just went live today. 🙂 I'm just impatient. 😉

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • thanksajdotcom
                thanksajdotcom @Bill Kindle last edited by

                @Bill-Kindle Exactly. For long-term backups, etc. get an appliance of some sort. Or, get something that does a real backup. Using shadow copies for backup is like trying to define a word with the word itself in the definition.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmiller
                  scottalanmiller last edited by

                  Shadow Copies actually are snapshots. Where they really come in handy is integrated self service file restores from within windows. And they are the underlying technology for nearly all windows backup systems today.

                  thanksajdotcom Bill Kindle 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                  • thanksajdotcom
                    thanksajdotcom @scottalanmiller last edited by

                    @scottalanmiller This is true. They work off of VSS or Volume Shadow Service. Using Shadow Copies is not worth much. The processes behind it though are critical.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Bill Kindle
                      Bill Kindle @scottalanmiller last edited by

                      @scottalanmiller That's actually almost exactly what I posted in response to a member over at Spiceworks who posed an issue this morning in the Windows Server Forum. They were keeping multiple copies per day, for 2 weeks. They were using the built in WSB but something happened and crashed their server. Turns out, server ran out of space and started throwing VSS errors. I've seen this now 2-3 times in the past week.

                      scottalanmiller 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • Bill Kindle
                        Bill Kindle last edited by

                        I have seen where the self service restores really do enhance the user experience but it just seems like there are still a lot of admins out there that just don't implement it or implement it correctly.

                        scottalanmiller 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • art_of_shred
                          art_of_shred Banned last edited by

                          Excellent point: shadow copy service is critical to backups, but not reliable solely for any business continuity plan. I think most people understand that, or else your big-dollar backup service providers would be up the creek.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • scottalanmiller
                            scottalanmiller @Bill Kindle last edited by

                            @Bill-Kindle said:

                            @scottalanmiller That's actually almost exactly what I posted in response to a member over at Spiceworks who posed an issue this morning in the Windows Server Forum. They were keeping multiple copies per day, for 2 weeks. They were using the built in WSB but something happened and crashed their server. Turns out, server ran out of space and started throwing VSS errors. I've seen this now 2-3 times in the past week.

                            Sadly very common. Snapshots are hard for people to understand.

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                            • scottalanmiller
                              scottalanmiller @Bill Kindle last edited by

                              @Bill-Kindle said:

                              I have seen where the self service restores really do enhance the user experience but it just seems like there are still a lot of admins out there that just don't implement it or implement it correctly.

                              Requires actually understanding storage.

                              thanksajdotcom 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • thanksajdotcom
                                thanksajdotcom @scottalanmiller last edited by

                                @scottalanmiller Agreed.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • scottalanmiller
                                  scottalanmiller last edited by

                                  People like to think snapshots are magic. They don't want to think about what they are or how they work.

                                  thanksajdotcom 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • thanksajdotcom
                                    thanksajdotcom @scottalanmiller last edited by

                                    @scottalanmiller Yup. Walking into an environment and hearing someone say that snapshots are their backup strategy...here's what you do.

                                    1. Apply face to palm.
                                    2. Remove face from palm.
                                    3. FIRMLY apply palm to other person's face. Repeat until sense has been enabled.
                                    Bob Beatty 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • scottalanmiller
                                      scottalanmiller last edited by

                                      I've never actually heard of any environment doing that. I think people talk about how bad it is far more than it actually happens.

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                                      • Bill Kindle
                                        Bill Kindle last edited by

                                        I actually see it mentioned more on Spicewood than I've personally seen. I can count on one hand how many places I've walked into where it was the strategy. Oh man, I remember when I was first I trounced to the concept when 2003 came out. A shop I worked at deployed quite a few sbs servers and it was setup for the customers to do quick restores. I remember sitting with an engineer while he was demonstrating how it worked for us and the customer. I still think it's a useful tool.

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                                        • scottalanmiller
                                          scottalanmiller last edited by

                                          Yes, Spiceworks does seem to have it come up quite often.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Bob Beatty
                                            Bob Beatty @thanksajdotcom last edited by

                                            @ajstringham said:

                                            @scottalanmiller Yup. Walking into an environment and hearing someone say that snapshots are their backup strategy...here's what you do.

                                            1. Apply face to palm.
                                            2. Remove face from palm.
                                            3. FIRMLY apply palm to other person's face. Repeat until sense has been enabled.

                                            I sort of did this until about 6 years ago - A VMWARE expert who was helping me setup my infrastructure laid it out for me about snapshots. Whenever I talk about them now, I express that my policy is that snapshots are only allowed to live on my network for a few hours, until I am assured that I don't need to immediately go back to it. It is a fall back process, not a backup strategy.

                                            thanksajdotcom 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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