Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers



  • Also it's RAID1, not RAID10 if there are only 2 drives involved.



  • @kris_k Sorry, typo on my part (I had RAID 10 on the brain since I was talking about wanting to do RAID 10 on the big array).

    Unfortunately, my company is very tight with money, so they don't want to buy new. They only intend on buying whatever parts I need in order to upgrade these servers (all from Amazon.com).



  • @shuey
    Don't buy new. Buy Dell refurb from xbyte :)



  • @kris_k If I could convince them, that'd be great. But the likelihood of that is slim :(... They refuse to buy from ANYONE, OTHER THAN Amazon :-x....

    At this stage, it seems in my best interest to spec out what they're willing to pay for, and present them with THAT info.


  • Service Provider

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @kris_k If I could convince them, that'd be great. But the likelihood of that is slim :(... They refuse to buy from ANYONE, OTHER THAN Amazon :-x....

    So they aren't cheap. Just not good with money.


  • Service Provider

    I agree that this is likely an expensive way to go. Two servers instead of one, lots of parts instead of purpose built, investing in old gear (technical debt) that isn't too old to use, but is probably too old to invest into. This will cost nearly as much to buy as a new, proper server, might actually cost more due to being stuck with smaller drives and such, will require more power to operate, more complexity to deal with multiple devices and so forth.

    By the time you are switching out for PSUs, getting new drive cages, etc. you'll have more than bought a real server. It's hard to believe that this is a "buying less" option in the long run.



  • This one is actually pretty easy - build both solutions on paper. See which one comes out on top.

    For your current servers, you already said you want to buy the extra 8 drive bay, you will need two different power supplies to hand the full load of 16 drives on a single Power Supply. And the RAID controller P411 only supports 8 ports, so you'll need another controller.
    Toss in the cost of drives, and bob's your uncle.

    Or find the parts you need, then get a quote from XByte for those more modern parts.

    Also, do you know what your storage requirements are? what your IOPs requirements are? What are you storing on these servers?



  • @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    (the original two drives will still host the OS, and the remaining 14 drives would be pooled into one big RAID 10 array; on each server).

    this seems like the wrong way to go. You should likely run the entire array as a OBR10, install a hypervisor on it, then build giant storage VMs as needed.


  • Service Provider

    @dashrender said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    (the original two drives will still host the OS, and the remaining 14 drives would be pooled into one big RAID 10 array; on each server).

    this seems like the wrong way to go. You should likely run the entire array as a OBR10, install a hypervisor on it, then build giant storage VMs as needed.

    It's for backup, so OBR6 most likely.



  • Thanks for all the feedback guys! I got on a live chat this morning with xByte and will be getting a quote later today. Can't hurt to at least see what they have to offer and get a price ;).


  • Service Provider

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Thanks for all the feedback guys! I got on a live chat this morning with xByte and will be getting a quote later today. Can't hurt to at least see what they have to offer and get a price ;).

    Awesome. I bet that they can beat any piecing together of parts for old gear.



  • Here's what they quoted me:

    • R730XD-2CPU Dell PowerEdge R730xd Server ( 2 CPU Version) (1)
    • Dell PowerEdge R730xd 3.5" Chassis with up to 12 Hard Drives (1)
    • Intel E5-2609v3 1.9GHz/15M/1600MHz 6-Core 85W (2)
    • Dell PE R730 Normal Heat Sink (2)
    • Dell 4GB DDR4 Reg (4)
    • PERC H730P Mini Mono Controller 2GB NV Cache (RAID 0/1/5/6/10/50/60) (1)
    • Dell 4TB 3.5" 7.2K NL SAS 12Gbs HDD (10)
    • Intel Ethernet I350 QP 1Gb Network Daughter Card (1)
    • iDRAC8 Enterprise (1)
    • Dell 2U Sliding Ready Rails (1)
    • Dell 13th Gen 750W Redundant PSU (1)
    • 5 Year Dell NBD Onsite Warranty (1)

    Total: $6,152.00



  • @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Thanks for all the feedback guys! I got on a live chat this morning with xByte and will be getting a quote later today. Can't hurt to at least see what they have to offer and get a price ;).

    I've always found that Dell beat xByte when its their end of quarter and end of year; you then get all new kit rather than refurbished. Of course you do have to haggle. From memory, Dell operate Feb - April = Q1, May - July = Q2, Aug - Oct = Q3 and Nov - Jan = their end of year... if you can wait until the last week of each you get great sales usually where they hit low prices to nail their targets.



  • @shuey why 2 cpu for a nas?! Wasn't 1 just enough?



  • @matteo-nunziati It wasn't an option of 1 or 2. If you look at their product page, they ONLY sell a 2 CPU configuration (at least for the models I reviewed).



  • @Shuey also how much do you can afford for offline? NBD for backup seems ok to me. But Maybe you would consider prosupport?!



  • @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @matteo-nunziati It wasn't an option of 1 or 2. If you look at their product page, they ONLY sell a 2 CPU configuration (at least for the models I reviewed).

    Ok! I Never look at xbyte: customs + shipping are too high from america to europe :-(


  • Service Provider

    @matteo-nunziati said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @Shuey also how much do you can afford for offline? NBD for backup seems ok to me. But Maybe you would consider prosupport?!

    I agree, consider moving to NBD support. Compare as much apples to apples as you can.


  • Service Provider

    @jimmy9008 said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Thanks for all the feedback guys! I got on a live chat this morning with xByte and will be getting a quote later today. Can't hurt to at least see what they have to offer and get a price ;).

    I've always found that Dell beat xByte when its their end of quarter and end of year; you then get all new kit rather than refurbished. Of course you do have to haggle. From memory, Dell operate Feb - April = Q1, May - July = Q2, Aug - Oct = Q3 and Nov - Jan = their end of year... if you can wait until the last week of each you get great sales usually where they hit low prices to nail their targets.

    Only for new, and he should not be considering new here, only refurb.


  • Service Provider

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Here's what they quoted me:

    • R730XD-2CPU Dell PowerEdge R730xd Server ( 2 CPU Version) (1)
    • Dell PowerEdge R730xd 3.5" Chassis with up to 12 Hard Drives (1)
    • Intel E5-2609v3 1.9GHz/15M/1600MHz 6-Core 85W (2)
    • Dell PE R730 Normal Heat Sink (2)
    • Dell 4GB DDR4 Reg (4)
    • PERC H730P Mini Mono Controller 2GB NV Cache (RAID 0/1/5/6/10/50/60) (1)
    • Dell 4TB 3.5" 7.2K NL SAS 12Gbs HDD (10)
    • Intel Ethernet I350 QP 1Gb Network Daughter Card (1)
    • iDRAC8 Enterprise (1)
    • Dell 2U Sliding Ready Rails (1)
    • Dell 13th Gen 750W Redundant PSU (1)
    • 5 Year Dell NBD Onsite Warranty (1)

    Total: $6,152.00

    So here are my thoughts, and call your rep, don't just go by what the site list.

    1. Why R730xd instead of the R720xd which is still overkill. This isn't the right model for you.
    2. Are you totally sure that the R520 won't do what you need? I think that it likely will, and will cut the cost by a lot.
    3. Two sexacore procs is twelve cores. That's a LOT. One quad core is plenty. Have them check on a single, small proc R520.


  • @scottalanmiller said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Here's what they quoted me:

    • R730XD-2CPU Dell PowerEdge R730xd Server ( 2 CPU Version) (1)
    • Dell PowerEdge R730xd 3.5" Chassis with up to 12 Hard Drives (1)
    • Intel E5-2609v3 1.9GHz/15M/1600MHz 6-Core 85W (2)
    • Dell PE R730 Normal Heat Sink (2)
    • Dell 4GB DDR4 Reg (4)
    • PERC H730P Mini Mono Controller 2GB NV Cache (RAID 0/1/5/6/10/50/60) (1)
    • Dell 4TB 3.5" 7.2K NL SAS 12Gbs HDD (10)
    • Intel Ethernet I350 QP 1Gb Network Daughter Card (1)
    • iDRAC8 Enterprise (1)
    • Dell 2U Sliding Ready Rails (1)
    • Dell 13th Gen 750W Redundant PSU (1)
    • 5 Year Dell NBD Onsite Warranty (1)

    Total: $6,152.00

    So here are my thoughts, and call your rep, don't just go by what the site list.

    1. Why R730xd instead of the R720xd which is still overkill. This isn't the right model for you.
    2. Are you totally sure that the R520 won't do what you need? I think that it likely will, and will cut the cost by a lot.
    3. Two sexacore procs is twelve cores. That's a LOT. One quad core is plenty. Have them check on a single, small proc R520.

    Yeah that's a lot of computing power just for storage. You didn't list any other uses so all that just to store backups is overkill.



  • @matteo-nunziati I don't follow what you mean for "do you can afford for offline?" and I don't know what "NBD for backup" means.

    @scottalanmiller I contacted xByte directly and the guy I spoke with (Ernesto) said he wouldn't recommend refurb (an R510) because "the hardware is 6-9 years old" (I guess I shouldn't be surprised by his comment...).

    I'll definitely look into the R520 - thanks for the tip Scott!

    The default onboard NIC on the R520 is a "Broadcom 5720 Quad Port Gigabit Ethernet". Should I just roll with that, or should I consider upgrading that? The options to choose from are "PCIe Riser Full Height" and "PCIe Riser Half Height". I'm not sure which one I would choose :-x... (other than the "full height" and go with the "Intel Ethernet I350 QP 1Gb Server Adapter").



  • @shuey I mean that uptime is important but for a backup NBD SLA should be enough, anyway move to a "prosupport" level could be considered.
    Prosupport is a marketing term from dell.



  • @shuey the broadcom chip is enough to me.


  • Service Provider

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    The default onboard NIC on the R520 is a "Broadcom 5720 Quad Port Gigabit Ethernet". Should I just roll with that, or should I consider upgrading that? The options to choose from are "PCIe Riser Full Height" and "PCIe Riser Half Height". I'm not sure which one I would choose :-x... (other than the "full height" and go with the "Intel Ethernet I350 QP 1Gb Server Adapter").

    I'd stick with the stock one. No reason to change it.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @jimmy9008 said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Thanks for all the feedback guys! I got on a live chat this morning with xByte and will be getting a quote later today. Can't hurt to at least see what they have to offer and get a price ;).

    I've always found that Dell beat xByte when its their end of quarter and end of year; you then get all new kit rather than refurbished. Of course you do have to haggle. From memory, Dell operate Feb - April = Q1, May - July = Q2, Aug - Oct = Q3 and Nov - Jan = their end of year... if you can wait until the last week of each you get great sales usually where they hit low prices to nail their targets.

    Only for new, and he should not be considering new here, only refurb.

    At these times of year, if you haggle well, you can get new for the same price as refurbished... why only consider refurbished here if you can get new?


  • Service Provider

    @jimmy9008 said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @scottalanmiller said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @jimmy9008 said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Thanks for all the feedback guys! I got on a live chat this morning with xByte and will be getting a quote later today. Can't hurt to at least see what they have to offer and get a price ;).

    I've always found that Dell beat xByte when its their end of quarter and end of year; you then get all new kit rather than refurbished. Of course you do have to haggle. From memory, Dell operate Feb - April = Q1, May - July = Q2, Aug - Oct = Q3 and Nov - Jan = their end of year... if you can wait until the last week of each you get great sales usually where they hit low prices to nail their targets.

    Only for new, and he should not be considering new here, only refurb.

    At these times of year, if you haggle well, you can get new for the same price as refurbished... why only consider refurbished here if you can get new?

    Even if the price is identical, I'll take refurb no-haggle over haggle and go through all that crap any day. Dealing with Dell directly is a huge negative and unless it's actively cheaper, it's not a good deal. Refurb and new are the same gear. I've never seen or heard of new actually being cheaper. So unless it is actually cheaper and takes very little friction to make it so and doesn't deteriorate my existing relationships (playing the low price game over a few dollars is a good way to get bad deals from everyone long term) I wouldn't even consider it.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @jimmy9008 said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @scottalanmiller said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @jimmy9008 said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @shuey said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Thanks for all the feedback guys! I got on a live chat this morning with xByte and will be getting a quote later today. Can't hurt to at least see what they have to offer and get a price ;).

    I've always found that Dell beat xByte when its their end of quarter and end of year; you then get all new kit rather than refurbished. Of course you do have to haggle. From memory, Dell operate Feb - April = Q1, May - July = Q2, Aug - Oct = Q3 and Nov - Jan = their end of year... if you can wait until the last week of each you get great sales usually where they hit low prices to nail their targets.

    Only for new, and he should not be considering new here, only refurb.

    At these times of year, if you haggle well, you can get new for the same price as refurbished... why only consider refurbished here if you can get new?

    Even if the price is identical, I'll take refurb no-haggle over haggle and go through all that crap any day. Dealing with Dell directly is a huge negative and unless it's actively cheaper, it's not a good deal. Refurb and new are the same gear. I've never seen or heard of new actually being cheaper. So unless it is actually cheaper and takes very little friction to make it so and doesn't deteriorate my existing relationships (playing the low price game over a few dollars is a good way to get bad deals from everyone long term) I wouldn't even consider it.

    I disagree. This wouldn't necessarily be over a few dollars, and dealing with Dell directly is not difficult at all. Quite simple actually. Right time of year can save a lot of cash...

    Why are you sabotaging business profits to keep those 'existing relationships' who are really actually ripping you off... Just so you don't have to 'haggle' - imo, sounds lazy.

    You 'wouldn't even consider it' - what exactly? You won't consider getting the best deal for your company for a call with Dell. Sounds like a little bit of corruption in IT to me, where you are sacrifice profits to keep 'your relationships' happy. Didn't you post about that and similar in another thread lately... Hmmmm.

    Get the best price you can, within reasonable effort - it's a fair expectation from most companies.

    What board do you know that would be happy to pay potentially far more to keep your existing people happy... You'll probably say lots.



  • @jimmy9008 said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Get the best price you can, within reasonable effort - it's a fair expectation from most companies.

    Scott bills out at $250+/hr. If it takes him 2 hours to get a quote from Dell they are already $500 in the whole compared to xByte (where he can get a quote from their website in mins).

    But it's really hard to believe that you could get an equal price, let alone superior price directly from Dell than you could from xByte, but in the interest of fairness, please post your quote so we can see them side by side.

    I have seen HP for example, crush vendor pricing on single laptop/desktop purchases with their sales, but we aren't talking about sales, we're talking about a server purchase.



  • @dashrender said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    @jimmy9008 said in Advice on building "storage servers" with two DL380 G7 servers:

    Get the best price you can, within reasonable effort - it's a fair expectation from most companies.

    Scott bills out at $250+/hr. If it takes him 2 hours to get a quote from Dell they are already $500 in the whole compared to xByte (where he can get a quote from their website in mins).

    But it's really hard to believe that you could get an equal price, let alone superior price directly from Dell than you could from xByte, but in the interest of fairness, please post your quote so we can see them side by side.

    I have seen HP for example, crush vendor pricing on single laptop/desktop purchases with their sales, but we aren't talking about sales, we're talking about a server purchase.

    The purchase was waaaayyyy back. I will try to dig up the details tomorrow.

    Yes, Scott would clearly cost far more than myself or others... Probably would be sensible to hand the quote/haggling to more economical employees once the spec an needs are detailed.



Looks like your connection to MangoLassi was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.