Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    ... because it is not performance based and 2 parts, so easier to pass.

    I'd focus on certs that will get your foot in the door. Certs that are easy to get are nice for quickly getting something onto your resume, but if they won't demonstrate that someone wants to hire you, you are wasting the effort at this point. You want to get your foot in the door and then, if you want those other certs, circle back to them when time allows.



  • Posting your resume here ("here" meaning, make a new thread for that) so that the community can do a resume review might be useful. This is done often and can be pretty helpful.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    If your goals are Linux work, which seems likely given your education background there, then the CCNA is useless because the parts of it that are good for you are covered by your Network+, the CCNA is specific to Cisco so useless in most environments and useless for anyone not tasked with Cisco work - which wouldn't overlap with Linux work.

    After failing LFCSA twice I got frustrated, other courses were included in membership, so I tried something else. Jobcentre send me to Steps To Success program and they made me take some Alison training, Introduction to Cloud Computing and Databases I found at least somewhat useful. I nearly got a job at Broadsoft and troubleshooting Linux performance and SQL were areas I struggled on an interview.
    Here is an example of CCNA and Linux in one job advert:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Junior-Network-Engineer-Job-1287402.aspx



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    If your goals are Linux work, which seems likely given your education background there, then the CCNA is useless because the parts of it that are good for you are covered by your Network+, the CCNA is specific to Cisco so useless in most environments and useless for anyone not tasked with Cisco work - which wouldn't overlap with Linux work.

    After failing LFCSA twice I got frustrated, other courses were included in membership, so I tried something else. Jobcentre send me to Steps To Success program and they made me take some Alison training, Introduction to Cloud Computing and Databases I found at least somewhat useful. I nearly got a job at Broadsoft and troubleshooting Linux performance and SQL were areas I struggled on an interview.
    Here is an example of CCNA and Linux in one job advert:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Junior-Network-Engineer-Job-1287402.aspx

    Oh hey, you are in Belfast, I take it? Great town, I used to have an office there at White Star House. My first line team was based out of there, so I've done a tonne of work with Belfast. My favourite pub is there.

    http://thedirtyduckalehouse.co.uk/

    So the issue here is that this is a "fake job" listing. These are incredibly common in IT. It's impossible to tell from this distance whether it is an entirely fake listing, just a lazy boilerplate listing for a real job that they aren't bothering to look up or if the company itself is fake (that's a real thing that happens to collect peoples' information - and it happens a lot.) But if you think about it, the job title and requirements don't match, at all, and are nonsensical.

    A network ENGINEER would need an engineer cert at a high level, but instead they look for an admin cert at a low level. Doesn't match. Then they ask for a bunch of Linux proficiency. But what good would Linux be to a networking job? None, is the answer.



  • Let's break down these requirements...

    0_1503857101737_DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20170827130444.png

    The "title" is Junior Network Engineer. Junior, meaning low level. Network, meaning managing switches, routers and firewalls. And Engineer, meaning planner, not operations. The title is extremely specific and tell you everything you should need to know about the job short of which vendor's products they primarily use.

    Then, immediately, they want you to be their non-junior Systems Administrator - the very first line of requirements shares not one thing with the title. It's clearly not junior based on the expected experience, it's systems rather than network, and it is administration rather than engineering. Um.. what?

    Then, it flips to mentioning networking.

    Now look, now you are expected to have UNIX or Linux administration experience - nothing to do with what they claim the job is.

    Then back to routing and switching, like you should already know from the title. Did they not realize that?

    Then Cisco, great, they clarified the vendor bit we were wondering about.

    Oh wait, now we are on to a whole new world of things with Microsoft (presumably Windows, but whoever wrote this doesn't know enough to know that MS makes databases, desktop apps, ERP, OSes, virtualization, etc. - this is not written by someone in IT), VMware (so now there is a whole new world of platform thrown in?), Symantec (backups, antivirus... what does this imply?), SonicWall (so this isn't an enterprise, this is toy gear), HP Servers (huh, now this is a bench job?) and ... switches... but they've covered switches all over the place, why is this mentioned again here?

    Then, solid networking asked for again... plus telephony, it's own skill set, out of nowhere.


    Bottom line, this job listing is fake. It's a nonsensical collection of words someone heard somewhere. They can't tell when they are putting in conflicting info, nor when they are putting in redundant info and even throw in random company names because they can't tell the different between a thing you know, and a company that makes things you might know.

    The best case scenario, this was written by someone that didn't care and doesn't know enough to hire any of the positions here. More likely scenario is that the whole thing is a scam.



  • @scottalanmiller
    No it is not fake. It is the same job:
    http://www.options-it.com/career/junior-network-engineer/
    I had Skype interview with IT manager from London a year ago. Said thinks should not say and doors are closed there for me since then.



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller
    No it is not fake. It is the same job:
    http://www.options-it.com/career/junior-network-engineer/
    I had Skype interview with IT manager from London a year ago. Said thinks should not say and doors are closed there for me since then.

    Oh it's fake, there is no other possibility. What kind of fake is the only question.

    Having had an interview doesn't tell you it isn't fake. I've had companies build entire Bank of America offices to run fake interviews, there is so much money in doing this (I need to make a video on all the ways they make money with fake job listings.) I had to contact Bank of America corporate and get them to confirm that the location of the office wasn't used by BoA and they knew nothing of the people, location, job, etc. It was a recruiting company scamming the entire thing.

    That a fake job is listed multiple places is normal and expected.



  • @scottalanmiller
    Hm, Options IT is employer itself, not agency.



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    I had Skype interview with IT manager from London a year ago.

    Did that "IT Manager" figure out that the job requirements made no sense and couldn't possibly be a real job? If not, they were no IT manager. They were probably faking that as well, which is normal and expected. Probably a scam recruiter trying to get people on the line in case real jobs open up.

    IT job listings are hard, but not writing them well and writing them as clearly false are different. This is a clearly false job listing. The best case scenario is bad, the worst case is really bad. But even non-technical people in the recruiting chain should notice things that make no sense like conflicting, non-technical requirements (hire engineer, want admin) and mistaking companies for skill sets.

    Imagine in other fields saying you needed experience with Kodak or General Electric. What does "experience with a company" mean? Nothing, and even non-technical people know that.



  • Anyway, my problem now that I am overqualified for junior positions and I do not have recent commercial experience for better once.
    My friend advised using "fantasy" - write in CV that I was involved in some projects, which is not true. But later I started thinking I can make it true. I can establish my own company find a few little customers. I have some other income, so for me would be enough just cover expenses in the worse case. If I did that 2 years ago it was 2 years commercial experience by now.



  • Also worth noting...

    0_1503858085771_DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20170827132105.png

    Few things here. First, these are "desirable" so we can give a bit more of a pass but there is fishy stuff here, too. Like why is the CCNA written "Cisco CCNA" but the CCNP written "CCNP certification"? This suggests that the source is copy/paste from two different places which is weird, if someone desired those things they would just type them in. Proves nothing, but I'm guessing whoever put those there didn't know what they meant. And if the CCNA is only "desired", why mention the CCNP, obviously "more is better", it's a silly thing to mention. And why not mention the CCIE if we are just shooting for the sky?

    Then "highly proficient in Linux". So they want someone that is above junior level on Linux, for a non-Linux job?

    Then out of nowhere they want multiple languages of scripting experience. Not bad, but seems out of place. Where does this fit in with the rest.

    Also... they "require" loads of Linux experience, but only "desire" a CCNA? Yet this is a Cisco networking job, right? The CCNA is too junior for any networking job. So this doesn't fit. The CCNP is the entry level cert for working in Cisco networking. So there is this huge mismatch where they seem to be looking for someone who has "heard about networking" but is an experienced, skilled, multi-vendor systems expert?

    So they want a $100K system admin to do a $50K networking internship, is what it looks like. It's crazy. None of it ads up.



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    My friend advised using "fantasy" - write in CV that I was involved in some projects, which is not true. But later I started thinking I can make it true. I can establish my own company find a few little customers. I have some other income, so for me would be enough just cover expenses in the worse case. If I did that 2 years ago it was 2 years commercial experience by now.

    Always "make it true." That's one of the great things about IT. There are always ways to make it true. Some ideas:

    1. Start your own company. This is both direct IT and direct business experience. The challenge here is getting work that is high enough level to matter.
    2. Volunteer. Non-profits or civil organizations often need IT and can't afford it. This can be one of the best ways to get real commercial experience without needing to start your own company.
    3. Home Lab. Build a massive home lab and do (and document) absolutely everything. Document it here on MangoLassi, in fact! Or write a blog. Or both. Don't just "do the work" but do it, document it and have a "portfolio" to show off to employers. When they ask "have you done X", you don't just know the material better because you did it, you have a "story to tell" and documented "proof" online where you wrote about it and you can point them to that. Doing stuff at home cradle to grave and running it in your own production is a massively impressive thing to have. Make them ashamed at how much more you do at home than they do at the office.
    4. Find an MSP and see about work there. MSP experience moves you faster than internal IT staff work, typically. Still requires getting hired, so not a magic answer by any stretch.
    5. Intern. In the US, at least, interning for free is totally normal and you can do this and build experience with all kinds of businesses and hopefully have a mentor that helps you, as well.


  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Anyway, my problem now that I am overqualified for junior positions and I do not have recent commercial experience for better once.

    I've not checked the CV that you posted yet, but what makes you overqualified for junior positions? Normally the big barriers there are either too much experience or, at an extreme stretch, loads of really senior certifications. But right now, you don't have even junior level certs and, I thought, no commercial experience. So totally not suggesting you aren't ready for a junior position, but not seeing (yet) anything that would make you overqualified for one.



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller
    Hm, Options IT is employer itself, not agency.

    That doesn't mean anything. Direct employers themselves are involved in most job scams. I once estimated in the early 2000s that 85% of all job listings were fake. They are used as a cheap way to do market research.



  • I'm going to split out the CV to its own thread. So just hold on and it will appear as it's own review topic.



  • Do you really pronounce routers as rooters, or was that a verbal typo?



  • @tim_g said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Do you really pronounce routers as rooters, or was that a verbal typo?

    Yes, really do. It's an intentionally variation from the American norm because the American pronunciation confuses everyone else. In the UK, for example, the two pronunciations mean two different things.



  • I learned to make the switch when working at the bank. Because most management and higher end tech was in the U.K. it made us sound better and reduced confusion.

    The way that Americans pronounce it refers to the wood cutting device there.



  • Makes sense.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    The CCNA is too junior for any networking job. So this doesn't fit. The CCNP is the entry level cert for working in Cisco networking. So there is this huge mismatch where they seem to be looking for someone who has "heard about networking" but is an experienced, skilled, multi-vendor systems expert?

    CCNA Essential Criteria at all of these:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-FTC-12-Job-1287686.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-350-Contract-Job-1286860.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-Job-1286064.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Cisco-Network-Security-Specialist-Job-1288862.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Senior-IT-Infrastructure-Analyst-Job-1288288.aspx

    A CCNP qualification would be an advantage but is not essential:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Technical-Analyst-Contract-Job-1287825.aspx

    But you make a good point. After applying to jobs some agencies called me for "registration interview" and I never received a word from them again, regardless continuously applying.



  • @john11smith I made like five or six videos about job hunting, or education in IT today. They will be posting throughout the week as the editor wraps up with them 🙂



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    The CCNA is too junior for any networking job. So this doesn't fit. The CCNP is the entry level cert for working in Cisco networking. So there is this huge mismatch where they seem to be looking for someone who has "heard about networking" but is an experienced, skilled, multi-vendor systems expert?

    CCNA Essential Criteria at all of these:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-FTC-12-Job-1287686.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-350-Contract-Job-1286860.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-Job-1286064.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Cisco-Network-Security-Specialist-Job-1288862.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Senior-IT-Infrastructure-Analyst-Job-1288288.aspx

    I only read the first of these but I think I have an idea of what they all say... basically these are networking jobs that are smart enough to only demand the CCNA. That doesn't imply that the CCNA is enough to get you the job, just that it is a minimum requirement. Remember that in a real job, those lists are a minimum, nothing more. So requiring anything specific is a bad idea, because you don't want to avoid the best candidates who just happened to not go and get the cert that you assumed would go with the job. The CCNA is super ultra basic for the Cisco world, so they feel safe making it a requirement. But that doesn't imply that without a CCNP that you'd have any chance of getting in the door, realistically you would not. But if you had a CCNA and twenty years of solid Cisco experience, they'd ignore the lack of CCNP.

    So in this case, from a VERY quick look at how they wrote it, it sounds completely reasonable. They listed a minimum requirement in a smart way.

    A lot of it is in how it is presented. The first one seemed to be looking for a CCNA level person, this one that I just checked is just making the CCNA a minimum starting point for who they are willing to talk to.



  • Cisco entry level certificates are CCENT and CCT. Passing 100-105 ICND1 Interconnecting Cisco Networking Devices Part 1 to get 2 parts way CCNA, automatically provides CCENT certificate. I am currently preparing for this one and it looks more technical than CompTIA Network+ for me.
    Yes, CCNA is Cisco specific, but if advertised Juniper engineer job usually stated that Cisco engineers are welcome, but not all way around.
    Majority of vacancies, where CCNA mentioned at all, are more senior positions, perhaps it just UK specific.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    My friend advised using "fantasy" - write in CV that I was involved in some projects, which is not true. But later I started thinking I can make it true. I can establish my own company find a few little customers. I have some other income, so for me would be enough just cover expenses in the worse case. If I did that 2 years ago it was 2 years commercial experience by now.

    Always "make it true." That's one of the great things about IT. There are always ways to make it true. Some ideas:

    1. Start your own company. This is both direct IT and direct business experience. The challenge here is getting work that is high enough level to matter.
    2. Volunteer. Non-profits or civil organizations often need IT and can't afford it. This can be one of the best ways to get real commercial experience without needing to start your own company.
    3. Home Lab. Build a massive home lab and do (and document) absolutely everything. Document it here on MangoLassi, in fact! Or write a blog. Or both. Don't just "do the work" but do it, document it and have a "portfolio" to show off to employers. When they ask "have you done X", you don't just know the material better because you did it, you have a "story to tell" and documented "proof" online where you wrote about it and you can point them to that. Doing stuff at home cradle to grave and running it in your own production is a massively impressive thing to have. Make them ashamed at how much more you do at home than they do at the office.
    4. Find an MSP and see about work there. MSP experience moves you faster than internal IT staff work, typically. Still requires getting hired, so not a magic answer by any stretch.
    5. Intern. In the US, at least, interning for free is totally normal and you can do this and build experience with all kinds of businesses and hopefully have a mentor that helps you, as well.
    1. It would fill resume gap automatically because has establishing date even if the company is dormant and there is a little chance that business will be successful. If I get IT contractor job would have to establish Ltd anyways. I am in the process already - domain and hosting paid for a year upfront.
    2. Looks time-consuming and it would be commercial experience in what area? Microsoft office support? Organizations like that do not have much of infrastructure and no Linux servers.
    3. I have a home lab and document it would be beneficial in any way.
    4. Strange never came to my head.
    5. Basically, none advertised and if so then for students of just after school.


  • @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Anyway, my problem now that I am overqualified for junior positions and I do not have recent commercial experience for better once.

    I've not checked the CV that you posted yet, but what makes you overqualified for junior positions?

    Some employers and agencies told me directly, perhaps it just polite way to say "you are too old".
    Statistics, in a couple of years I have applied for approximately 250 jobs and have received some feedback regarding medium and senior positions and nearly zero regarding junior.



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Cisco entry level certificates are CCENT and CCT.

    Those are entry level CERTS, not certs for entry level JOBS. Does that make sense? Like the MTA on Windows, the CCENT might be the lowest level cert that Cisco offers, but it is a "pre-pro" level cert that falls below entry level in the job market.

    Just like the MCSA is the entry level job cert for Windows Administration, the CCNP is really the entry level cert for Cisco Network Administration.



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Majority of vacancies, where CCNA mentioned at all, are more senior positions, perhaps it just UK specific.

    I think you are being misled by fake job postings. CCNA is so far below senior level, it's just silly. Listing a CCNA as being important for a senior job should itself be an obvious flag that the job is fake. Either that it is not really a job at all, or that it is not the job that it claims to be (not senior, not networking, etc.)



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    1. Looks time-consuming and it would be commercial experience in what area? Microsoft office support? Organizations like that do not have much of infrastructure and no Linux servers.

    You might feel that way, but you'd be in control. I did this myself and built out and entire Linux infrastructure for a K12 school in New York. Desktops, servers, storage, networking, phones, you name it. I did it all. That experience wasn't just amazing as a learning experience, it was, along with my home lab, what walked me in to the most senior role on Canary Wharf in pure tech. I was the only Linux person they had ever had with the scale of cradle to grave experience that they had seen and I got put in charge of the entire Linux infrastructure for the largest bank in the world.

    Was that the only thing on my resume? Heck no. Did I have Fortune 10 experience before that? Yes. Did I use Linux before that? Yes. Am I good in interviews? Yes. So I'm not claiming that a couple years of volunteer work took me from new IT guy to true senior overnight. But there is no doubt that it was one of the biggest factors that there could be.

    I was a decently senior IT person before that. But my volunteer work changed my knowledge, confidence and immediately caused me to triple my earnings.

    Opportunities are out there, you just have to make them.



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Anyway, my problem now that I am overqualified for junior positions and I do not have recent commercial experience for better once.

    I've not checked the CV that you posted yet, but what makes you overqualified for junior positions?

    Some employers and agencies told me directly, perhaps it just polite way to say "you are too old".

    That's not overqualified, that's ... well, that's illegal most places.



  • @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Statistics, in a couple of years I have applied for approximately 250 jobs and have received some feedback regarding medium and senior positions and nearly zero regarding junior.

    Given your resume, why apply for senior positions? Given that you are making a major career change, it's just not reasonable to step into a senior role.