Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video


  • Service Provider

    Youtube Video

    How do you get into IT in the first place? What is needed for that first job? What paths can you take to get your foot in the door? Is college a requirement? What about certifications? It all starts with helpdesk, right?



  • @scottalanmiller
    Thanks for video Scott Alan.
    I have 15 years of experience servicing networked MFP, Copiers, printers, but volunteered to get redundant and struggle to make carrier switch to IT for over 2 Years. I apply for about 5 jobs every two weeks. Here is list of my training:
    Linux Foundation X LFS101x – Introduction to Linux (Dec 2015)
    Linux Foundation X LFS201x – Essentials of Linux System Administration (April 2016)
    Failed LFCSA exam
    LinuxAcademy.com – LFCSA v2.16 prep course (September 2016)
    Failed LFCSA exam again ( I was close to passing, so should pay for 2 more trying and finally get done with it)
    LinuxAcademy.com – DevOps Essentials (September 2016)
    LinuxAcademy.com – Learning Puppet DevOps Deployment (Puppet Professional Cert) (Nov 2016)
    LinuxAcademy.com – OpenStack Essentials (October 2016)
    ALISON – Introduction to Cloud Computing (November 2016)
    ALISON – Databases – DML Statements and SQL Server Administration (Dec 2016)
    LinuxAcademy.com – SQL Primer (December 2016)
    JUNIPER NETWORKS – Networking Fundamentals – WBT (Jan 2017)
    PEARSON – CompTIA's Network+ Exam Cram and Labs (February 2017)
    Cisco CCNA – Routing and Switching (in progress)
    Howtonetwork.com – Master Subnetting (Aug 2017)
    Howtonetwork.com – Cisco CCNA Simplified (in progress)
    Before I passed CompTIA Network+ no one employer even bother to call me for an interview, but CompTIA Network+ is not good enough to get hired ether.
    I think formal qualification is important and if I start this process over would start from CCNA then Linux+ instead of LFCSA, because it is not performance based and 2 parts, so easier to pass.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    I think formal qualification is important and if I start this process over would start from CCNA then Linux+ instead of LFCSA, because it is not performance based and 2 parts, so easier to pass.

    I work heavily in the Linux space and the Linux+, I can tell you, is worthless for employers. The cert itself is too basic (and too incorrect) to be any good or show anything. The only Linux certs worth something for job progress are the Red Hat exams, and they only get you so far (but will get you those early Linux jobs.)

    If your goals are Linux work, which seems likely given your education background there, then the CCNA is useless because the parts of it that are good for you are covered by your Network+, the CCNA is specific to Cisco so useless in most environments and useless for anyone not tasked with Cisco work - which wouldn't overlap with Linux work.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Linux Foundation X LFS101x – Introduction to Linux (Dec 2015)
    Linux Foundation X LFS201x – Essentials of Linux System Administration (April 2016)
    Failed LFCSA exam
    LinuxAcademy.com – LFCSA v2.16 prep course (September 2016)
    Failed LFCSA exam again ( I was close to passing, so should pay for 2 more trying and finally get done with it)
    LinuxAcademy.com – DevOps Essentials (September 2016)
    LinuxAcademy.com – Learning Puppet DevOps Deployment (Puppet Professional Cert) (Nov 2016)
    LinuxAcademy.com – OpenStack Essentials (October 2016)
    ALISON – Introduction to Cloud Computing (November 2016)
    ALISON – Databases – DML Statements and SQL Server Administration (Dec 2016)
    LinuxAcademy.com – SQL Primer (December 2016)
    JUNIPER NETWORKS – Networking Fundamentals – WBT (Jan 2017)
    PEARSON – CompTIA's Network+ Exam Cram and Labs (February 2017)
    Cisco CCNA – Routing and Switching (in progress)
    Howtonetwork.com – Master Subnetting (Aug 2017)
    Howtonetwork.com – Cisco CCNA Simplified (in progress)

    So some thoughts here on the education paths. These are classes so would not be the things on your resume, useful here for discussion, but given these it's hard to tell what a potential employer might be seeing from your resume. Given all of these classes, I can't tell what you are really trying to do as this is a bit of a hodge podge of topics. Not that that's bad, I'm only saying that it makes it hard to look at the classes and guess as your goals.

    But from this; here is what I see...

    1. Heavy mix of topics. Great for learning an IT foundation, but it doesn't lead to any specific, obvious career position. Looking at this list I can tell what job you'd be good at, nor which one you'd want.
    2. I've worked in UNIX for 23 years and Linux for 20 years specifically and in the Linux training and hiring space and I've never heard of the LFCSA. These little "web site certs" aren't what people mean by industry certs. Nothing wrong with them, but they are no substitute for the "real thing." Seeing the LFCSA on your resume would likely do nothing as people looking for specific certs would never see it and most people in the field wouldn't know what it is or represents if they happen to see it.
    3. You've got a mix of things that look to be showing a range of really light knowledge, but nothing deep. Network+ is networking for non-networking pros, Juniper and Cisco are very specific classes for network pros. CCNA is an intern cert for networking - it's too light to get you a job in Cisco work, but too specific to be useful to anyone not on Cisco. The CCNA really exists only as a stepping stone to the CCNP and the CCNP is only for people looking to work as a Cisco Network Administrator in the enterprise space. So while that's a great career, it doesn't match your other classes at all.
    4. Mixed in are some database classes and some specific to Microsoft SQL Server which don't seem to match anything else.
    5. You've got cloud classes, which is great for understanding cloud computing, but won't be very useful in this space. If you want work that needs OpenStack skills, you'll be looking at super high level work that your other material does not support at this time.

    My big thing here is - focus. You've got five topics in your curriculum: Linux Admin, Cloud Engineer, Network Admin, Database something and DevOps (this is part of Linux Admin, but a different aspect of it.) But all of these are at the "survey" level. Great for someone building a foundation before looking into the specifics that they want to focus on; but at this point that focus seems to be lacking.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    I have 15 years of experience servicing networked MFP, Copiers, printers, but volunteered to get redundant and struggle to make carrier switch to IT for over 2 Years.

    Welcome to the IT side of things :)

    I think a great place to start here is... what aspect of IT do you like and what is your ideal career? And by ideal career, let's talk goals. What is your current goal for your first job (what are you trying to find today), where do you want to be in a year, five years and "eventually" as a final destination.

    Knowing what interests you will help in figuring out how to approach where you need to be headed today.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    I have 15 years of experience servicing networked MFP, Copiers, printers, but volunteered to get redundant and struggle to make carrier switch to IT for over 2 Years.

    Welcome to the IT side of things :)

    I think a great place to start here is... what aspect of IT do you like and what is your ideal career? And by ideal career, let's talk goals. What is your current goal for your first job (what are you trying to find today), where do you want to be in a year, five years and "eventually" as a final destination

    Always a challenge for some of us to determine, when you have a variety of interests.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    ... because it is not performance based and 2 parts, so easier to pass.

    I'd focus on certs that will get your foot in the door. Certs that are easy to get are nice for quickly getting something onto your resume, but if they won't demonstrate that someone wants to hire you, you are wasting the effort at this point. You want to get your foot in the door and then, if you want those other certs, circle back to them when time allows.


  • Service Provider

    Posting your resume here ("here" meaning, make a new thread for that) so that the community can do a resume review might be useful. This is done often and can be pretty helpful.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    If your goals are Linux work, which seems likely given your education background there, then the CCNA is useless because the parts of it that are good for you are covered by your Network+, the CCNA is specific to Cisco so useless in most environments and useless for anyone not tasked with Cisco work - which wouldn't overlap with Linux work.

    After failing LFCSA twice I got frustrated, other courses were included in membership, so I tried something else. Jobcentre send me to Steps To Success program and they made me take some Alison training, Introduction to Cloud Computing and Databases I found at least somewhat useful. I nearly got a job at Broadsoft and troubleshooting Linux performance and SQL were areas I struggled on an interview.
    Here is an example of CCNA and Linux in one job advert:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Junior-Network-Engineer-Job-1287402.aspx


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    If your goals are Linux work, which seems likely given your education background there, then the CCNA is useless because the parts of it that are good for you are covered by your Network+, the CCNA is specific to Cisco so useless in most environments and useless for anyone not tasked with Cisco work - which wouldn't overlap with Linux work.

    After failing LFCSA twice I got frustrated, other courses were included in membership, so I tried something else. Jobcentre send me to Steps To Success program and they made me take some Alison training, Introduction to Cloud Computing and Databases I found at least somewhat useful. I nearly got a job at Broadsoft and troubleshooting Linux performance and SQL were areas I struggled on an interview.
    Here is an example of CCNA and Linux in one job advert:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Junior-Network-Engineer-Job-1287402.aspx

    Oh hey, you are in Belfast, I take it? Great town, I used to have an office there at White Star House. My first line team was based out of there, so I've done a tonne of work with Belfast. My favourite pub is there.

    http://thedirtyduckalehouse.co.uk/

    So the issue here is that this is a "fake job" listing. These are incredibly common in IT. It's impossible to tell from this distance whether it is an entirely fake listing, just a lazy boilerplate listing for a real job that they aren't bothering to look up or if the company itself is fake (that's a real thing that happens to collect peoples' information - and it happens a lot.) But if you think about it, the job title and requirements don't match, at all, and are nonsensical.

    A network ENGINEER would need an engineer cert at a high level, but instead they look for an admin cert at a low level. Doesn't match. Then they ask for a bunch of Linux proficiency. But what good would Linux be to a networking job? None, is the answer.


  • Service Provider

    Let's break down these requirements...

    0_1503857101737_DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20170827130444.png

    The "title" is Junior Network Engineer. Junior, meaning low level. Network, meaning managing switches, routers and firewalls. And Engineer, meaning planner, not operations. The title is extremely specific and tell you everything you should need to know about the job short of which vendor's products they primarily use.

    Then, immediately, they want you to be their non-junior Systems Administrator - the very first line of requirements shares not one thing with the title. It's clearly not junior based on the expected experience, it's systems rather than network, and it is administration rather than engineering. Um.. what?

    Then, it flips to mentioning networking.

    Now look, now you are expected to have UNIX or Linux administration experience - nothing to do with what they claim the job is.

    Then back to routing and switching, like you should already know from the title. Did they not realize that?

    Then Cisco, great, they clarified the vendor bit we were wondering about.

    Oh wait, now we are on to a whole new world of things with Microsoft (presumably Windows, but whoever wrote this doesn't know enough to know that MS makes databases, desktop apps, ERP, OSes, virtualization, etc. - this is not written by someone in IT), VMware (so now there is a whole new world of platform thrown in?), Symantec (backups, antivirus... what does this imply?), SonicWall (so this isn't an enterprise, this is toy gear), HP Servers (huh, now this is a bench job?) and ... switches... but they've covered switches all over the place, why is this mentioned again here?

    Then, solid networking asked for again... plus telephony, it's own skill set, out of nowhere.


    Bottom line, this job listing is fake. It's a nonsensical collection of words someone heard somewhere. They can't tell when they are putting in conflicting info, nor when they are putting in redundant info and even throw in random company names because they can't tell the different between a thing you know, and a company that makes things you might know.

    The best case scenario, this was written by someone that didn't care and doesn't know enough to hire any of the positions here. More likely scenario is that the whole thing is a scam.



  • @scottalanmiller
    No it is not fake. It is the same job:
    http://www.options-it.com/career/junior-network-engineer/
    I had Skype interview with IT manager from London a year ago. Said thinks should not say and doors are closed there for me since then.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller
    No it is not fake. It is the same job:
    http://www.options-it.com/career/junior-network-engineer/
    I had Skype interview with IT manager from London a year ago. Said thinks should not say and doors are closed there for me since then.

    Oh it's fake, there is no other possibility. What kind of fake is the only question.

    Having had an interview doesn't tell you it isn't fake. I've had companies build entire Bank of America offices to run fake interviews, there is so much money in doing this (I need to make a video on all the ways they make money with fake job listings.) I had to contact Bank of America corporate and get them to confirm that the location of the office wasn't used by BoA and they knew nothing of the people, location, job, etc. It was a recruiting company scamming the entire thing.

    That a fake job is listed multiple places is normal and expected.



  • @scottalanmiller
    Hm, Options IT is employer itself, not agency.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    I had Skype interview with IT manager from London a year ago.

    Did that "IT Manager" figure out that the job requirements made no sense and couldn't possibly be a real job? If not, they were no IT manager. They were probably faking that as well, which is normal and expected. Probably a scam recruiter trying to get people on the line in case real jobs open up.

    IT job listings are hard, but not writing them well and writing them as clearly false are different. This is a clearly false job listing. The best case scenario is bad, the worst case is really bad. But even non-technical people in the recruiting chain should notice things that make no sense like conflicting, non-technical requirements (hire engineer, want admin) and mistaking companies for skill sets.

    Imagine in other fields saying you needed experience with Kodak or General Electric. What does "experience with a company" mean? Nothing, and even non-technical people know that.



  • Anyway, my problem now that I am overqualified for junior positions and I do not have recent commercial experience for better once.
    My friend advised using "fantasy" - write in CV that I was involved in some projects, which is not true. But later I started thinking I can make it true. I can establish my own company find a few little customers. I have some other income, so for me would be enough just cover expenses in the worse case. If I did that 2 years ago it was 2 years commercial experience by now.


  • Service Provider

    Also worth noting...

    0_1503858085771_DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20170827132105.png

    Few things here. First, these are "desirable" so we can give a bit more of a pass but there is fishy stuff here, too. Like why is the CCNA written "Cisco CCNA" but the CCNP written "CCNP certification"? This suggests that the source is copy/paste from two different places which is weird, if someone desired those things they would just type them in. Proves nothing, but I'm guessing whoever put those there didn't know what they meant. And if the CCNA is only "desired", why mention the CCNP, obviously "more is better", it's a silly thing to mention. And why not mention the CCIE if we are just shooting for the sky?

    Then "highly proficient in Linux". So they want someone that is above junior level on Linux, for a non-Linux job?

    Then out of nowhere they want multiple languages of scripting experience. Not bad, but seems out of place. Where does this fit in with the rest.

    Also... they "require" loads of Linux experience, but only "desire" a CCNA? Yet this is a Cisco networking job, right? The CCNA is too junior for any networking job. So this doesn't fit. The CCNP is the entry level cert for working in Cisco networking. So there is this huge mismatch where they seem to be looking for someone who has "heard about networking" but is an experienced, skilled, multi-vendor systems expert?

    So they want a $100K system admin to do a $50K networking internship, is what it looks like. It's crazy. None of it ads up.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    My friend advised using "fantasy" - write in CV that I was involved in some projects, which is not true. But later I started thinking I can make it true. I can establish my own company find a few little customers. I have some other income, so for me would be enough just cover expenses in the worse case. If I did that 2 years ago it was 2 years commercial experience by now.

    Always "make it true." That's one of the great things about IT. There are always ways to make it true. Some ideas:

    1. Start your own company. This is both direct IT and direct business experience. The challenge here is getting work that is high enough level to matter.
    2. Volunteer. Non-profits or civil organizations often need IT and can't afford it. This can be one of the best ways to get real commercial experience without needing to start your own company.
    3. Home Lab. Build a massive home lab and do (and document) absolutely everything. Document it here on MangoLassi, in fact! Or write a blog. Or both. Don't just "do the work" but do it, document it and have a "portfolio" to show off to employers. When they ask "have you done X", you don't just know the material better because you did it, you have a "story to tell" and documented "proof" online where you wrote about it and you can point them to that. Doing stuff at home cradle to grave and running it in your own production is a massively impressive thing to have. Make them ashamed at how much more you do at home than they do at the office.
    4. Find an MSP and see about work there. MSP experience moves you faster than internal IT staff work, typically. Still requires getting hired, so not a magic answer by any stretch.
    5. Intern. In the US, at least, interning for free is totally normal and you can do this and build experience with all kinds of businesses and hopefully have a mentor that helps you, as well.

  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Anyway, my problem now that I am overqualified for junior positions and I do not have recent commercial experience for better once.

    I've not checked the CV that you posted yet, but what makes you overqualified for junior positions? Normally the big barriers there are either too much experience or, at an extreme stretch, loads of really senior certifications. But right now, you don't have even junior level certs and, I thought, no commercial experience. So totally not suggesting you aren't ready for a junior position, but not seeing (yet) anything that would make you overqualified for one.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller
    Hm, Options IT is employer itself, not agency.

    That doesn't mean anything. Direct employers themselves are involved in most job scams. I once estimated in the early 2000s that 85% of all job listings were fake. They are used as a cheap way to do market research.


  • Service Provider

    I'm going to split out the CV to its own thread. So just hold on and it will appear as it's own review topic.



  • Do you really pronounce routers as rooters, or was that a verbal typo?


  • Service Provider

    @tim_g said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    Do you really pronounce routers as rooters, or was that a verbal typo?

    Yes, really do. It's an intentionally variation from the American norm because the American pronunciation confuses everyone else. In the UK, for example, the two pronunciations mean two different things.


  • Service Provider

    I learned to make the switch when working at the bank. Because most management and higher end tech was in the U.K. it made us sound better and reduced confusion.

    The way that Americans pronounce it refers to the wood cutting device there.



  • Makes sense.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    The CCNA is too junior for any networking job. So this doesn't fit. The CCNP is the entry level cert for working in Cisco networking. So there is this huge mismatch where they seem to be looking for someone who has "heard about networking" but is an experienced, skilled, multi-vendor systems expert?

    CCNA Essential Criteria at all of these:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-FTC-12-Job-1287686.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-350-Contract-Job-1286860.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-Job-1286064.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Cisco-Network-Security-Specialist-Job-1288862.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Senior-IT-Infrastructure-Analyst-Job-1288288.aspx

    A CCNP qualification would be an advantage but is not essential:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Technical-Analyst-Contract-Job-1287825.aspx

    But you make a good point. After applying to jobs some agencies called me for "registration interview" and I never received a word from them again, regardless continuously applying.


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith I made like five or six videos about job hunting, or education in IT today. They will be posting throughout the week as the editor wraps up with them :)


  • Service Provider

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    The CCNA is too junior for any networking job. So this doesn't fit. The CCNP is the entry level cert for working in Cisco networking. So there is this huge mismatch where they seem to be looking for someone who has "heard about networking" but is an experienced, skilled, multi-vendor systems expert?

    CCNA Essential Criteria at all of these:
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-FTC-12-Job-1287686.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-350-Contract-Job-1286860.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-Job-1286064.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Cisco-Network-Security-Specialist-Job-1288862.aspx
    http://www.nijobs.com/Senior-IT-Infrastructure-Analyst-Job-1288288.aspx

    I only read the first of these but I think I have an idea of what they all say... basically these are networking jobs that are smart enough to only demand the CCNA. That doesn't imply that the CCNA is enough to get you the job, just that it is a minimum requirement. Remember that in a real job, those lists are a minimum, nothing more. So requiring anything specific is a bad idea, because you don't want to avoid the best candidates who just happened to not go and get the cert that you assumed would go with the job. The CCNA is super ultra basic for the Cisco world, so they feel safe making it a requirement. But that doesn't imply that without a CCNP that you'd have any chance of getting in the door, realistically you would not. But if you had a CCNA and twenty years of solid Cisco experience, they'd ignore the lack of CCNP.

    So in this case, from a VERY quick look at how they wrote it, it sounds completely reasonable. They listed a minimum requirement in a smart way.

    A lot of it is in how it is presented. The first one seemed to be looking for a CCNA level person, this one that I just checked is just making the CCNA a minimum starting point for who they are willing to talk to.



  • Cisco entry level certificates are CCENT and CCT. Passing 100-105 ICND1 Interconnecting Cisco Networking Devices Part 1 to get 2 parts way CCNA, automatically provides CCENT certificate. I am currently preparing for this one and it looks more technical than CompTIA Network+ for me.
    Yes, CCNA is Cisco specific, but if advertised Juniper engineer job usually stated that Cisco engineers are welcome, but not all way around.
    Majority of vacancies, where CCNA mentioned at all, are more senior positions, perhaps it just UK specific.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    @john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:

    My friend advised using "fantasy" - write in CV that I was involved in some projects, which is not true. But later I started thinking I can make it true. I can establish my own company find a few little customers. I have some other income, so for me would be enough just cover expenses in the worse case. If I did that 2 years ago it was 2 years commercial experience by now.

    Always "make it true." That's one of the great things about IT. There are always ways to make it true. Some ideas:

    1. Start your own company. This is both direct IT and direct business experience. The challenge here is getting work that is high enough level to matter.
    2. Volunteer. Non-profits or civil organizations often need IT and can't afford it. This can be one of the best ways to get real commercial experience without needing to start your own company.
    3. Home Lab. Build a massive home lab and do (and document) absolutely everything. Document it here on MangoLassi, in fact! Or write a blog. Or both. Don't just "do the work" but do it, document it and have a "portfolio" to show off to employers. When they ask "have you done X", you don't just know the material better because you did it, you have a "story to tell" and documented "proof" online where you wrote about it and you can point them to that. Doing stuff at home cradle to grave and running it in your own production is a massively impressive thing to have. Make them ashamed at how much more you do at home than they do at the office.
    4. Find an MSP and see about work there. MSP experience moves you faster than internal IT staff work, typically. Still requires getting hired, so not a magic answer by any stretch.
    5. Intern. In the US, at least, interning for free is totally normal and you can do this and build experience with all kinds of businesses and hopefully have a mentor that helps you, as well.
    1. It would fill resume gap automatically because has establishing date even if the company is dormant and there is a little chance that business will be successful. If I get IT contractor job would have to establish Ltd anyways. I am in the process already - domain and hosting paid for a year upfront.
    2. Looks time-consuming and it would be commercial experience in what area? Microsoft office support? Organizations like that do not have much of infrastructure and no Linux servers.
    3. I have a home lab and document it would be beneficial in any way.
    4. Strange never came to my head.
    5. Basically, none advertised and if so then for students of just after school.


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