Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD
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@francesco-provino said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@travisdh1 said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@magicmarker said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
I've still been researching this topic. After digging deeper, I was curious as to why nobody recommended Proxmox as the nice GUI wrapper to the Linux KVM hypervisor. For the Linux newbies, and the Windows admins out there getting into Linux, this seems to be a great way to use the KVM hypervisor. Why can't Proxmox be an option for the SAM-SD Hypervisor that runs the Linux VM file server.
#1 It's only a wrapper. You're giving up a lot of control for the convenience.
#2 The Proxmox devs and company obviously don't know a thing about being a sysadmin on UNIX type operating systems. Seriously, removing the mdadm module is the silliest thing I've ever heard anyone doing. Thankfully they can't remove md, as it's a piece of the kernel. Do you really want to trust your environment to a company like that?They remove WHAT?? Are you joking? I wasn't aware of that. My last experience with Proxomox was 5-6 years ago.
They've always been against using software RAID. Even back then. Of course, if you're at all cognizent of the thing, and the fix is super easy, install mdadm.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@magicmarker said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
I've still been researching this topic. After digging deeper, I was curious as to why nobody recommended Proxmox...
We get asked this all the time.
- It's just a GUI on top of KVM and Open-VZ (and now LXC). It's weird and complex and while a GUI is nice, we have GUIs already that work great and don't require completely third party packages.
- The ProxMox company are scammers and rotten people. You don't want to deal with them. This isn't a nice project.
- @StorageNinja can tell you, they actually run a full on spam marketing organization. They are deleted constantly with fake accounts on SW. We've been dealing with them spamming constantly for about five years.
- It's attempting to solve a problem we don't have.
Your points are all true. The major selling point is that oVirt is too much a hassle to configure and manage, and the last time I tried it I wasn't able to use it in any productive way. Something like XO for KVM could be a deal breaker for the GUI aficionados. As of today I can do anything without a GUI on plain KVM (virsh console is my friend), so I don't really care/need it, but a lot of people want it of course.
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@travisdh1 said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
They've always been against using software RAID. Even back then. Of course, if you're at all cognizent of the thing, and the fix is super easy, install mdadm.
I'm curious about this statement as Proxmox fully supports ZFS filesystems via GUI and CLI...
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They'd have a hard time blocking it at the CLI. Possible, but hard. Does ProxMox implement software RAID via ZFS from the GUI? I've never tried it since they added ZFS.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
They'd have a hard time blocking it at the CLI. Possible, but hard. Does ProxMox implement software RAID via ZFS from the GUI? I've never tried it since they added ZFS.
Yes from the GUI.
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@fateknollogee said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
They'd have a hard time blocking it at the CLI. Possible, but hard. Does ProxMox implement software RAID via ZFS from the GUI? I've never tried it since they added ZFS.
Yes from the GUI.
That's cool. That's what I would have assumed. But lots of vendors avoid software RAID, so you never know.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@fateknollogee said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
They'd have a hard time blocking it at the CLI. Possible, but hard. Does ProxMox implement software RAID via ZFS from the GUI? I've never tried it since they added ZFS.
Yes from the GUI.
That's cool. That's what I would have assumed. But lots of vendors avoid software RAID, so you never know.
It's one of the many things that gave ProxMox a bad name.
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@travisdh1 said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@fateknollogee said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
They'd have a hard time blocking it at the CLI. Possible, but hard. Does ProxMox implement software RAID via ZFS from the GUI? I've never tried it since they added ZFS.
Yes from the GUI.
That's cool. That's what I would have assumed. But lots of vendors avoid software RAID, so you never know.
It's one of the many things that gave ProxMox a bad name.
What has? I thought that we just established that they DO support software RAID.
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The biggest problem with ProxMox is what their owner is like and his army of spammers.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@travisdh1 said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@fateknollogee said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
They'd have a hard time blocking it at the CLI. Possible, but hard. Does ProxMox implement software RAID via ZFS from the GUI? I've never tried it since they added ZFS.
Yes from the GUI.
That's cool. That's what I would have assumed. But lots of vendors avoid software RAID, so you never know.
It's one of the many things that gave ProxMox a bad name.
What has? I thought that we just established that they DO support software RAID.
It's one of the many things that gave ProxMox a bad name. Not saying they've fixed any of the other things.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
The biggest problem with ProxMox is what their owner is like and his army of spammers.
Can you elaborate?
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@travisdh1 said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@travisdh1 said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@fateknollogee said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
They'd have a hard time blocking it at the CLI. Possible, but hard. Does ProxMox implement software RAID via ZFS from the GUI? I've never tried it since they added ZFS.
Yes from the GUI.
That's cool. That's what I would have assumed. But lots of vendors avoid software RAID, so you never know.
It's one of the many things that gave ProxMox a bad name.
What has? I thought that we just established that they DO support software RAID.
It's one of the many things that gave ProxMox a bad name. Not saying they've fixed any of the other things.
I'm so confused. How is it one if it isn't something that they've done?
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@fateknollogee said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
The biggest problem with ProxMox is what their owner is like and his army of spammers.
Can you elaborate?
ProxMox gained a reputation on SW for constantly creating spam accounts and necroposting advertising on threads. They got so bad that we can't even consider them an actual business, their business is online spam creation. There is likely no such thing as an honest review out there about them. It's all their own staff using fake accounts to post reviews making them look good. Basically every post on PM is removed from SW because they do this constantly. It's been about five years and is still a continuous things. It's one of the top spam sources for that community, even now.
Their owner got belligerent that they got caught and was incredibly rude and threatening to people for showing that they had a "spam army" doing just this. To this day, essentially every PM recommendation you will ever see comes from someone that no one knows and has no reputation, will never respond and never post again.
They are "one post wonder" spam accounts that are created to post a PM ad and are then burned. They have a process for doing that.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@travisdh1 said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@travisdh1 said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@fateknollogee said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
They'd have a hard time blocking it at the CLI. Possible, but hard. Does ProxMox implement software RAID via ZFS from the GUI? I've never tried it since they added ZFS.
Yes from the GUI.
That's cool. That's what I would have assumed. But lots of vendors avoid software RAID, so you never know.
It's one of the many things that gave ProxMox a bad name.
What has? I thought that we just established that they DO support software RAID.
It's one of the many things that gave ProxMox a bad name. Not saying they've fixed any of the other things.
I'm so confused. How is it one if it isn't something that they've done?
Before they finally changed their ways, they were very much against software raid period, ever. Were very pushy about it as well.
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Oh, their docs still say that they don't support it. This is odd.
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This is odd, their software RAID page says that they don't support software RAID. But then say that they do if you read down it, but that info is on a different page, not the software RAID page.
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I want to revisit this thread. I found something interesting. There is a Linux OS called DietPi. Which is a optimized and lightweight version of Debian Jessie. For someone like me that isn't deep into the Linux world and live in the command line, this OS makes it very easy to utilize a lightweight version of Linux to run an NFS file server repository for my SAM-SD. A NFS server is just one of many software applications you can install. Also, if I want to install something, it's a freaking checkbox. The website also clearly spells out what and how to get going for each software application. Any feedback on this OS? Anything that I'm missing, or why this wouldn't be a good idea for my SAM-SD OS? I would still install a Hypervisor on the host, and then run DietPi with the NFS server option as a VM.
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@magicmarker said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
A NFS server is just one of many software applications you can install. Also, if I want to install something, it's a freaking checkbox.
How is that different than any other Linux distro? I'm not sure that I can name one that doesn't offer a checkbox install of NFS or most major features.
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@magicmarker said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
Anything that I'm missing, or why this wouldn't be a good idea for my SAM-SD OS?
I think "this is just a generally silly idea" is the first thing. This is a toy project that isn't even available yet (the PC version you'd need for a SAM-SD is just in beta and in no way the focus of the project) and should never be used for production.
Servers are meant to be stable. You need a supported, enterprise OS. This is a cool project for your Raspberry Pi project, but not for a server. This is a hobby OS literally made for hobby usages.
The only OSes in the Linux family that you could ever use and still call it a SAM-SD would be Fedora, CentOS, Oracle, RHEL, OpenSuse Leap. OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Suse, Ubuntu, Debian and that's about it. Anything else might be fine for a desktop or a hobby item, but we are talking about a storage server here.
So the high level view is... this is the wrong approach, I feel like it is based on a misunderstanding of how easy and what other Linux options are like, not understanding the intent of this project, not being clear on what makes an enterprise OS and missing that this isn't even out of beta.
Server operating systems aren't something you go searching for. There is a list of enterprise OSes. ANd the list I gave is larger than I would myself except, but is more middle of the road.
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@magicmarker said in Linux OS advice for building a SAM-SD:
Which is a optimized and lightweight version of Debian Jessie.
Debian being the one enterprise OS that I myself would not except as being enterprise. And optimized doesn't mean what it implies. It's optimized to be used for hobby projects on a hobby board for tinkering, not optimized for use as a server. Optimized is only a positive if something is optimized for your use case, otherwise it's a negative.
