Better Than Aliens
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@coliver said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@coliver said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
While he says the right thing that VLAN is stupid for VoIP....... Well it is still Curtis..
Perfect example of someone giving me misinformation yet again. I was told that VLAN's are supposed to be used for VoIP QoS
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
If it makes me look ignorant (or proves me to be ignorant) it's typically true
Ok, it's just odd because this is a topic that has been discussed ad nauseum here and the other site.
I don't really read the VoIP stuff here (or anywhere) because I have never managed it. I already have a lot to learn even without VoIP
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@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
While he says the right thing that VLAN is stupid for VoIP....... Well it is still Curtis..
VoIP as we know it today was from 1995. Curtis has a trend of claiming to work in industries before things existed, but then turns out that they were in use at the time.
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@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
Perfect example of someone giving me misinformation yet again. I was told that VLAN's are supposed to be used for VoIP QoS
That's gotta be around the #3 most common topic on SW. RAID, IPOD and VLANs are the big three that I can think of that the same misinformation is given, the same corrections given and it is on continuous repeat.
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@scottalanmiller said in Better Than Aliens:
@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
While he says the right thing that VLAN is stupid for VoIP....... Well it is still Curtis..
VoIP as we know it today was from 1995. Curtis has a trend of claiming to work in industries before things existed, but then turns out that they were in use at the time.
oh, I know. this is a fairly standard claim from him. you will see it all the time.
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@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@stacksofplates said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@coliver said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
While he says the right thing that VLAN is stupid for VoIP....... Well it is still Curtis..
Perfect example of someone giving me misinformation yet again. I was told that VLAN's are supposed to be used for VoIP QoS
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
If it makes me look ignorant (or proves me to be ignorant) it's typically true
You work for a govt entity. I would distrust anything IT related they say to you by default. Govt IT is awful. I work for a DoD contractor and it's even bad at this level. @coliver is also govt I think but he's an exception to the rule.
Well this is from way back. I don't do anything VoIP related so it's just a piece of information I've carried with me, not really understanding VoIP. That will change though as I'm going to implement it at home soon.
Understanding VoIP would not be a factor. It's understanding VLANs, once you know what they are, you know they don't apply like this regardless of the protocol.
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@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
@scottalanmiller said in Better Than Aliens:
@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
While he says the right thing that VLAN is stupid for VoIP....... Well it is still Curtis..
VoIP as we know it today was from 1995. Curtis has a trend of claiming to work in industries before things existed, but then turns out that they were in use at the time.
oh, I know. this is a fairly standard claim from him. you will see it all the time.
Like he remembers the Internet being invented in 1998.
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@scottalanmiller said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@stacksofplates said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@coliver said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
While he says the right thing that VLAN is stupid for VoIP....... Well it is still Curtis..
Perfect example of someone giving me misinformation yet again. I was told that VLAN's are supposed to be used for VoIP QoS
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
If it makes me look ignorant (or proves me to be ignorant) it's typically true
You work for a govt entity. I would distrust anything IT related they say to you by default. Govt IT is awful. I work for a DoD contractor and it's even bad at this level. @coliver is also govt I think but he's an exception to the rule.
Well this is from way back. I don't do anything VoIP related so it's just a piece of information I've carried with me, not really understanding VoIP. That will change though as I'm going to implement it at home soon.
Understanding VoIP would not be a factor. It's understanding VLANs, once you know what they are, you know they don't apply like this regardless of the protocol.
I have not needed to even use VLAN's for any of my jobs if you think about it. Small business even in mindset. We use them here but it was already setup before I was here, as was everything else
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Danny Cohen did VoIP in 1973, just one year after modern IP was developed in 1972.
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@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@scottalanmiller said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@stacksofplates said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@coliver said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 said in Better Than Aliens:
@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
While he says the right thing that VLAN is stupid for VoIP....... Well it is still Curtis..
Perfect example of someone giving me misinformation yet again. I was told that VLAN's are supposed to be used for VoIP QoS
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
If it makes me look ignorant (or proves me to be ignorant) it's typically true
You work for a govt entity. I would distrust anything IT related they say to you by default. Govt IT is awful. I work for a DoD contractor and it's even bad at this level. @coliver is also govt I think but he's an exception to the rule.
Well this is from way back. I don't do anything VoIP related so it's just a piece of information I've carried with me, not really understanding VoIP. That will change though as I'm going to implement it at home soon.
Understanding VoIP would not be a factor. It's understanding VLANs, once you know what they are, you know they don't apply like this regardless of the protocol.
I have not needed to even use VLAN's for any of my jobs if you think about it. Small business even in mindset. We use them here but it was already setup before I was here, as was everything else
But you still need to know NOT to use them. That's all you need to know.
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@wirestyle22 I dont think you should feel bad for thinking this. If you rewind 10+ years vendors like Allworx (grrrr) would deflect every quality issue as a result of you not deploying VLANS and QoS on your 12 phone network. Hah! And I am talking about Allworx with a PRI attached who is telling you your LAN is some kind of bottleneck.
Allworx had and may still have a header issue.
I still come across customers with band issues that have some legacy VLAN/QoS configured (and configured wrong most of the time).
So, point being, you really couldnt fault someone for having this "misinformation".
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@bigbear I just came back from a 4 day vacation so the self-loathing is pretty low right now but thanks
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@scottalanmiller said
But you still need to know NOT to use them. That's all you need to know.
Thats a good quote...
I think somewhere on here the other day we were just discussing how the WAN device is the bottleneck. Of course there is also the shameful limiting of upload speeds with ISP's. If you have 5mb to 10mb up and a decent router you should be fine.
Even when we run into places where they are dropboxing the crap out of their bandwidth I prefer to limit the non-realtime protocol that is causing the issue over creating a queue for RTP streams. In reality a queue can only have priority when there are other things queued.
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@bigbear said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 I dont think you should feel bad for thinking this. If you rewind 10+ years vendors like Allworx (grrrr) would deflect every quality issue as a result of you not deploying VLANS and QoS on your 12 phone network. Hah! And I am talking about Allworx with a PRI attached who is telling you your LAN is some kind of bottleneck.
Allworx had and may still have a header issue.
I still come across customers with band issues that have some legacy VLAN/QoS configured (and configured wrong most of the time).
So, point being, you really couldnt fault someone for having this "misinformation".
This is why I have a VOIP VLAN. Lack of knowledge and MSP pushing it.
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@bigbear said in Better Than Aliens:
In reality a queue can only have priority when there are other things queued.
This is the key. Understand this, you start understanding the use/need of VLANs and QoS - only start to understand.
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@bigbear said in Better Than Aliens:
@wirestyle22 I dont think you should feel bad for thinking this. If you rewind 10+ years vendors like Allworx (grrrr) would deflect every quality issue as a result of you not deploying VLANS and QoS on your 12 phone network. Hah! And I am talking about Allworx with a PRI attached who is telling you your LAN is some kind of bottleneck.
Allworx had and may still have a header issue.
I still come across customers with band issues that have some legacy VLAN/QoS configured (and configured wrong most of the time).
So, point being, you really couldnt fault someone for having this "misinformation".
Except, the misinformation is based on not knowing the fundamentals that IT should be required to know. This is Net+ level stuff. Once you know what a VLAN is, you know this doesn't make sense and that the vendor is preying on you. And if you know business basics, also required for IT, you know that your vendor sales people have an incentive to push you in ways that interest them, not you, and not to get IT advice from them. So while I agree, loads of misinformation out there, the root of it is something everyone in IT has a responsibility to know to question, and the technical basis is considered within the baseline for the industry.
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@coliver said in Better Than Aliens:
@JaredBusch said in Better Than Aliens:
Both of those statements are incorrect in that picture.
The guy recommending VLAN is recommending for the wrong reason. But the OP network sounds quite large. It would probably benefit from some segregation.
But the OP also stated he thought VLAN needed 2 jacks in the wall.. so just nope.. stepping the fuck out of that thread....
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Curtis weighs in on port security...
