Should I stay or should I go now?
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It's not unlike the problem of college vs. jumping into a career. The two approaches are so drastically different that people generally don't know how to weight them against each other. People who choose college often get stuck looking at the "but it is easier to get a job" argument. And people who skip college often look at the "but I'll start four or more years earlier" argument. You have to look at the full picture, it's hard.
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@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
You are both reading way more into that than is likely actually happening.
Larger organizations typically work in committee to make new titles and pay scales for the rank and file because they have to apply it across the board. HR is almost always involved in that because they are the ones that are aware of things like union contracts and how various other agreements may be affected by doing something like creating a new title and pay scale.
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@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
You are both reading way more into that than is likely actually happening.
Larger organizations typically work in committee to make new titles and pay scales for the rank and file because they have to apply it across the board. HR is almost always involved in that because they are the ones that are aware of things like union contracts and how various other agreements may be affected by doing something like creating a new title and pay scale.
Perhaps, but it's already come up that HR is standing in his way for a promotion out of the technical ranks. If HR is a barrier to that, they are a barrier. If they are not, then they are not. As they've already been listed as a specific problem for this, it seems safe to assume a high chance that they will be a problem here as well as it is effectively the exact same thing. Are there ways around it? Maybe. Will they work? Maybe. But it is a very real risk.
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@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
That's where I want to be eventually, but I don't see that happening awhile at least 7-8 years. I gotta put my dues in and I'm OK with that. I just want to make sure I'm able to take the next step. I'm not necessarily looking at the farthest one too closely yet.
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@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
That's where I want to be eventually, but I don't see that happening awhile at least 7-8 years. I gotta put my dues in and I'm OK with that. I just want to make sure I'm able to take the next step. I'm not necessarily looking at the farthest one too closely yet.
That's a long time for someone who already has experience. I would think that even without an amazing break that you could significantly reduce that.
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@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
That's where I want to be eventually, but I don't see that happening awhile at least 7-8 years. I gotta put my dues in and I'm OK with that. I just want to make sure I'm able to take the next step. I'm not necessarily looking at the farthest one too closely yet.
That's a long time for someone who already has experience. I would think that even without an amazing break that you could significantly reduce that.
How do you transition from a technical to management? That's kind of tough for someone with no management experience.
It probably would require taking a paycut and going to SMB?
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@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
That's where I want to be eventually, but I don't see that happening awhile at least 7-8 years. I gotta put my dues in and I'm OK with that. I just want to make sure I'm able to take the next step. I'm not necessarily looking at the farthest one too closely yet.
That's a long time for someone who already has experience. I would think that even without an amazing break that you could significantly reduce that.
How do you transition from a technical to management? That's kind of tough for someone with no management experience.
Well, read some books, ask to get involved, sometimes you just do it and... is it what you really want? Are you LOOKING to make a career change?
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@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
It probably would require taking a paycut and going to SMB?
That's not normally how it works.
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Having to go to the SMB, that is. SMB being a paycut from enterprise is pretty common.
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@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
That's where I want to be eventually, but I don't see that happening awhile at least 7-8 years. I gotta put my dues in and I'm OK with that. I just want to make sure I'm able to take the next step. I'm not necessarily looking at the farthest one too closely yet.
That's a long time for someone who already has experience. I would think that even without an amazing break that you could significantly reduce that.
How do you transition from a technical to management? That's kind of tough for someone with no management experience.
Well, read some books, ask to get involved, sometimes you just do it and... is it what you really want? Are you LOOKING to make a career change?
So you think if I read some books on the matter, companies will let me get involved? I'm not sure how that works
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@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
That's where I want to be eventually, but I don't see that happening awhile at least 7-8 years. I gotta put my dues in and I'm OK with that. I just want to make sure I'm able to take the next step. I'm not necessarily looking at the farthest one too closely yet.
That's a long time for someone who already has experience. I would think that even without an amazing break that you could significantly reduce that.
How do you transition from a technical to management? That's kind of tough for someone with no management experience.
Well, read some books, ask to get involved, sometimes you just do it and... is it what you really want? Are you LOOKING to make a career change?
So you think if I read some books on the matter, companies will let me get involved? I'm not sure how that works
You think that is less likely that letting you get involved with nothing? Reading books and being interested in it is MORE than what university does. And it's how I got into it
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@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
That's where I want to be eventually, but I don't see that happening awhile at least 7-8 years. I gotta put my dues in and I'm OK with that. I just want to make sure I'm able to take the next step. I'm not necessarily looking at the farthest one too closely yet.
That's a long time for someone who already has experience. I would think that even without an amazing break that you could significantly reduce that.
How do you transition from a technical to management? That's kind of tough for someone with no management experience.
Well, read some books, ask to get involved, sometimes you just do it and... is it what you really want? Are you LOOKING to make a career change?
So you think if I read some books on the matter, companies will let me get involved? I'm not sure how that works
You think that is less likely that letting you get involved with nothing? Reading books and being interested in it is MORE than what university does. And it's how I got into it
I could see that, but it seems even less likely to go from technical to management with no experience to show.
You have a long history of consultation. Which is a serious of many decisions with an outlook at the overall picture. While I've made plenty of recommendations and worked plenty of projects and implementation. I've never had final decision authority.
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@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@JaredBusch said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Dashrender said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
Don't allow the company to make excuses that hinder your growth. If they can't keep up with the other companies in your area/field, then you have no choice but to leave.
But, if they really are a good company, they will make these changes rapidly, as needed to keep good employees.
You also missed this point..
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
One of the appealing things about my current role is I have an opportunity to build something from the ground up. I wouldn't be qualified to do this type of niche within information security otherwise. The serious upside is that this role could potentially double my salary. However if the program doesn't take off then I could potentially waste quite a bit of time money (potential higher salary)
So it sounds like there is more than jsut higher wages elsewhere involved here. It sounds like a startup within a larger enterprise.
That kind of thing can be lucrative. Just like any other start up.
Something similar to this, but no quite. I have the opportunity to be the lead on something that SMBs would never have. Every enterprise and government organization has this area of information security though. It's somewhat less technical than what I've done in the past, but I'm starting to see a top out in the technical part of my career anyway.
I could have more money right now if I wanted because the demand is so high its ridiculous, but I don't think I'd have the opportunity to do what I am doing now somewhere else. If I can establish this area, it could potentially pay off huge.
It could potentially put me in the path of a C level position. There would be another step after this, but I wouldn't be far off.
I am a type that would grab an opportunity that works with my life, and this sounds exactly like something I woudl do in your position.
Security related work will be in huge demands for years to come.
So I would take this risk and stay on for a year. If it fails, move on. You are out a bit of a short term wage increase in that instance, but the potential long term is higher faster. Risk vs. Reward, only you can make that call.
That's exactly the time frame I was thinking. See what happens in another year. I agree that the demand is high and not going away anytime soon. So either way I will be in a a better place in a year.
Well, except for the cost of lost opportunity. How much career advancement do you give up to sit in a low paying shop that isn't really focused on excellence? A year is a lot of career time to sacrifice.
Potentially none. That is the entire point you are ignoring.
Depending on how the project goes he could move to C level and be subsequently ahead of where he would be if he moves now.
It is not always black and white Scott.
Sure that's true - but if HR is truly the one holding back pay raises - then they are equally as likely to keep pay for any new C-levels low or non existent.
The markings of bad management are already there.And it sounds like HR has the power to ban him from being the one that gets that C level position, regardless of the work that he does.
That's where I want to be eventually, but I don't see that happening awhile at least 7-8 years. I gotta put my dues in and I'm OK with that. I just want to make sure I'm able to take the next step. I'm not necessarily looking at the farthest one too closely yet.
That's a long time for someone who already has experience. I would think that even without an amazing break that you could significantly reduce that.
How do you transition from a technical to management? That's kind of tough for someone with no management experience.
Well, read some books, ask to get involved, sometimes you just do it and... is it what you really want? Are you LOOKING to make a career change?
So you think if I read some books on the matter, companies will let me get involved? I'm not sure how that works
You think that is less likely that letting you get involved with nothing? Reading books and being interested in it is MORE than what university does. And it's how I got into it
I could see that, but it seems even less likely to go from technical to management with no experience to show.
It's the only way. Everyone starts somewhere, no matter what.
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@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
You have a long history of consultation.
Never do this. This is a pattern of people making excuses. People who are "where you want to be" didn't start there. Never discount their path to where they want to be because it worked, that's crazy. Of course I had no experience when I moved to management, I was far less experienced than you are now. You are using the growth I've had since that time to discredit how I got to the point of getting that experience.
People do this with me all the time. They see my experience in the enterprise and tell me that I have no idea about the SMB. One minute later someone will see my SMB experience and tell me I can't conceive of the enterprise. The same advice will be discredited because I.... work in SMB/work in enterprise, went to college/didn't go to college, am successful/am not successful, earned my way up/was handed everything.
See how little that makes sense? It's a standard pattern that I've noticed in people looking for career advice that they will find people who have gotten where they want to go, ask them how they got there (or find out) and then say that that doesn't apply based on something illogical. But will look to people struggling or failing to get where they want to go or have no connection to it (like teachers) and ask their advice which is obviously suspect as they've not done the thing that they are giving advice on, and take that advice because it seems to apply more because they are in a similar position.
But this makes no sense. It is specifically because I came from where you are and got here that my input is most valuable to you.
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@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
I've never had final decision authority.
So go create some. Go volunteer with a non-profit to head their IT. Make some decisions. Build your experience.
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Or just apply to jobs where you will do that. Nothing holding you back. The idea that not having done that is stopping you is totally in your mind.
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@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
I've never had final decision authority.
So go create some. Go volunteer with a non-profit to head their IT. Make some decisions. Build your experience.
This sounds fun, until you realize you're the guy that the non-profit is relying on. . .
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@dustinb3403 said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
I've never had final decision authority.
So go create some. Go volunteer with a non-profit to head their IT. Make some decisions. Build your experience.
This sounds fun, until you realize you're the guy that the non-profit is relying on. . .
That will encourage you to do a good job of it.
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@DustinB3403 said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@scottalanmiller said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
@Some_user said in Should I stay or should I go now?:
I've never had final decision authority.
So go create some. Go volunteer with a non-profit to head their IT. Make some decisions. Build your experience.
This sounds fun, until you realize you're the guy that the non-profit is relying on. . .
Designing the network so that they don't need you constantly is part of good decision making.
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Those are good points.
