Twilio as a SIP provider



  • @coliver said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Can you explain 60/60 vs 6/6?

    From the sound of it you get charged for a full 60 seconds whether you use the entire thing or not. 6/6 sound the same but only for 6 seconds?

    In telecom the first number is the minimum number of seconds you will be billed for the call. The second number is the minimum increments you will be billed in seconds for the remainder of the call.

    As a CLEC or wholesaler you will see a little of 6/1. On the retail side Origination (even Flowroute) is 60/60 where there outbound is 30/6.

    For retail Twilio has the best origination deal you will (.0045) find and Telnyx has the best termination I have seen.

    Wholesale requires minimum monthly commitments and at least 1mmou (million minutes of monthly usage). In wholesale we mostly LCR through providers that do not provide 100% guaranteed call completion. With Twilio on wholesale you can get down to .0025.



  • I should also mention, for at least 5 years, DID peering has dramatically cut wholesale/CLEC costs on the backend (with no benefit to the retail side).

    DID peering means carriers router calls directly to each other before hitting the telephone network. We charge each other .00001 or less for these connections.



  • A few numbers I crunched. I'm basing this off of minutes reported on my last Windstream bill for toll-free and long-distance calling. Trying to get accurate overall numbers digging through Altigen CDR is proving to be a challenge.

    Total toll-free minutes (6-second increments): 12010.8 ---- Cost for voip.ms = 228.21 ($0.019)
    Total toll-free minutes (60-second increments): 12756 ---- Cost for Twilio = 229.61 ($0.018)

    Long-distance minutes (6-second increments): 14100.1 --- Cost for voip.ms = 141.00 ($0.01)
    Long-distance minutes (60-second increments): 15203 -- Cost for Twilio = 106.52 ($0.007)



  • So a bit of savings there, but not massive. But not bad.



  • Incoming calls are free on both?



  • @scottalanmiller No. I'm trying to go through the Altigen CDR to try to get an accurate count of non-toll free inbound minutes.



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller No. I'm trying to go through the Altigen CDR to try to get an accurate count of non-toll free inbound minutes.

    Add a couple zeros and its a pretty big deal. Just look at annual savings for example.

    Inbound will be huge, 50% or more savings over voip.ms

    I would use Telnyx for outbound. Way easier to configure and its .0075 with 6/6 billing on outbound. Also, when you call out to 800 numbers Twilio will charge you, Telnyx will terminate the call for free (as it should be for the calling party)

    There are some other advantages with caller ID passing via Telnyx that Twilio will give you problems with if the number isn't in your DID list.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    So a bit of savings there, but not massive. But not bad.

    He is comparing those numbers against his Windstream bill. A number we have not see. But willbe significantly higher than those numbers.



  • Here are some numbers. Here are a few things to note. First, minutes are as accurate as I can get from my CDR cross-referencing tasks. Second, a "normal" Windstream bill is around $750. This month was the worst of the toll-fraud. Third, add about $5 / month for a Vultr instance for Twilio or Voip.ms. Fourth, savings will be event more when if cut out some DIDs, as we're not using more than 50 at the moment.

    Edit: Removed incorrect figures.



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    about $5 / month for a Vultr instance for Twilio or Voip.ms. Fourth, savings will be event more when if cut out some DIDs, as

    damn - nearly a 75% savings.



  • Bah, realized I had my sum-formula written incorrect. Here's the real deal (including Vultr hosting)
    0_1498505357008_503801aa-aab1-4d35-84b7-07b34449900d-image.png



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Bah, realized I had my sum-formula written incorrect. Here's the real deal (including Vultr hosting)
    0_1498505357008_503801aa-aab1-4d35-84b7-07b34449900d-image.png

    Should be $6 for hosting if you use their auto backup feature also.

    But yeah, those are pretty typical savings when coming from legacy systems.



  • A "normal" month comparison. Minutes for 60/60 would probably be more, but it seems like it's a 10% increase over 6/6 minutes. This is the best estimate I could make.
    0_1498505520344_fde88939-8119-478e-b451-a6e421c4d779-image.png



  • I did not look at your calculations, but are you calculating the inbound and outbound on the right costs since Twilio has different rates on that?

    Just making sure you are doing it all right.



  • @JaredBusch Thanks for checking, and I have. I'll do one more check of all of my numbers before it's all presented to my bosses.



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @JaredBusch Thanks for checking, and I have. I'll do one more check of all of my numbers before it's all presented to my bosses.

    I would not show specific names and totals to them. It should be presented in terms of % saved per month or $ saved per month. With a generic "SIP Provider" noted.

    Because as soon as you show specific names and numbers, you will be stuck with that no matter what you find out after more testing.



  • @JaredBusch said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @JaredBusch Thanks for checking, and I have. I'll do one more check of all of my numbers before it's all presented to my bosses.

    I would not show specific names and totals to them. It should be presented in terms of % saved per month or $ saved per month. With a generic "SIP Provider" noted.

    Because as soon as you show specific names and numbers, you will be stuck with that no matter what you find out after more testing.

    100% agree. Said spreadsheets are for my own calculations.



  • @EddieJennings 6/6 is about 7% savings on average, it's not as simple as the way your calcing it.

    I have to apologize but Telnyx being outbound at the rights I described above is at over a million minutes per month of usage, which is the last number I paid attention to. So it's on par with voip.ms



  • @bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings 6/6 is about 7% savings on average, it's not as simple as the way your calcing it.

    I have to apologize but Telnyx being outbound at the rights I described above is at over a million minutes per month of usage, which is the last number I paid attention to. So it's on par with voip.ms

    How ought I calculate it? I took my CDR, which has the actual time of the calls and created two new columns. One column rounded up anything starting at 1 second over the minute to the next minute. The other column took the time and rounded it up to the next 1/10 of a minute. Taking a sum of each column seems like it would give me the total minutes calculated for 60/60 and the total minutes calculated 6/6, which I can then multiply by the rate for the SIP service.



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings 6/6 is about 7% savings on average, it's not as simple as the way your calcing it.

    I have to apologize but Telnyx being outbound at the rights I described above is at over a million minutes per month of usage, which is the last number I paid attention to. So it's on par with voip.ms

    How ought I calculate it? I took my CDR, which has the actual time of the calls and created two new columns. One column rounded up anything starting at 1 second over the minute to the next minute. The other column took the time and rounded it up to the next 1/10 of a minute. Taking a sum of each column seems like it would give me the total minutes calculated for 60/60 and the total minutes calculated 6/6, which I can then multiply by the rate for the SIP service.

    That is exactly how you calculate it.



  • Unless @bigbear is talking about my "normal" month estimate. I don't have CDR before the toll fraud started, so I made an estimate based on the proportion of 60/60 and 6/6 minutes from my last bill.



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Unless @bigbear is talking about my "normal" month estimate. I don't have CDR before the toll fraud started, so I made an estimate based on the proportion of 60/60 and 6/6 minutes from my last bill.

    Most likely he assumed you did not calculate as you did. Most people cannot figure it out even once explained. I cannot count how many times I have done this.



  • @EddieJennings you did it correctly then



  • Debated on making a new topic, but I figure since I enjoy playing necromancers in D&D, I'd resurrect this.

    After much gnashing of teeth and the kind @JaredBusch taking the time to help verify that, in fact, you really can terminate calls with Twilio and FreePBX, I figured out the problem:

    Credentials.

    Bloody credentials.

    To those who play with Twilio, know that the username used for trunk authentication is case-sensitive. Though, I'm still blown away that this was even a problem, as I was copying / pasting credentials with my test; however, I confirmed that calls can be terminated and verified that the username is case-sensitive. Oh well, my pride will recover, and as a result my company will probably save an additional $10 / month on SIP service. 🙂



  • I live in UNIX, I assume everything is case sensitive 🙂



  • @eddiejennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Debated on making a new topic, but I figure since I enjoy playing necromancers in D&D, I'd resurrect this.

    After much gnashing of teeth and the kind @JaredBusch taking the time to help verify that, in fact, you really can terminate calls with Twilio and FreePBX, I figured out the problem:

    Credentials.

    Bloody credentials.

    To those who play with Twilio, know that the username used for trunk authentication is case-sensitive. Though, I'm still blown away that this was even a problem, as I was copying / pasting credentials with my test; however, I confirmed that calls can be terminated and verified that the username is case-sensitive. Oh well, my pride will recover, and as a result my company will probably save an additional $10 / month on SIP service. 🙂

    I learned this lesson in SSIDs a few years ago - I feel your pain!



  • @eddiejennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Debated on making a new topic, but I figure since I enjoy playing necromancers in D&D, I'd resurrect this.

    After much gnashing of teeth and the kind @JaredBusch taking the time to help verify that, in fact, you really can terminate calls with Twilio and FreePBX, I figured out the problem:

    Credentials.

    Bloody credentials.

    To those who play with Twilio, know that the username used for trunk authentication is case-sensitive. Though, I'm still blown away that this was even a problem, as I was copying / pasting credentials with my test; however, I confirmed that calls can be terminated and verified that the username is case-sensitive. Oh well, my pride will recover, and as a result my company will probably save an additional $10 / month on SIP service. 🙂

    Terminating calls with FreePBX was weird to figure out, even weirder if you make sub accounts.

    There is also the need to have auth but twilio doesn't want you to maintain a registration. Just auth and IP combined. In FusionPBX it was easier to figure out. Took maybe 10 mins of trial and error. I had to get developer support from Twilio.

    The one cool thing is you will see in your Twilio console a bug icon at the top right light up whenever a call is denied for termination, along with a bug report that contains SIP details.



  • @bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @eddiejennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Debated on making a new topic, but I figure since I enjoy playing necromancers in D&D, I'd resurrect this.

    After much gnashing of teeth and the kind @JaredBusch taking the time to help verify that, in fact, you really can terminate calls with Twilio and FreePBX, I figured out the problem:

    Credentials.

    Bloody credentials.

    To those who play with Twilio, know that the username used for trunk authentication is case-sensitive. Though, I'm still blown away that this was even a problem, as I was copying / pasting credentials with my test; however, I confirmed that calls can be terminated and verified that the username is case-sensitive. Oh well, my pride will recover, and as a result my company will probably save an additional $10 / month on SIP service. 🙂

    Terminating calls with FreePBX was weird to figure out, even weirder if you make sub accounts.

    There is also the need to have auth but twilio doesn't want you to maintain a registration. Just auth and IP combined. In FusionPBX it was easier to figure out. Took maybe 10 mins of trial and error. I had to get developer support from Twilio.

    The one cool thing is you will see in your Twilio console a bug icon at the top right light up whenever a call is denied for termination, along with a bug report that contains SIP details.

    It took me less than 10 minutes to setup his trunk on my PBX and make an outbound call. That included reading the Twilio document first and not just winging it.

    I set it up once. Did not have to edit. It worked on the first try. So yeah. If you know what you are doing with FreePBX (which you don't or dont' want to) it is trivial.

    I used a PJSIP trunk. worked flawlessly.



  • Who all is using Twilio as their SIP provider?



  • @fateknollogee said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Who all is using Twilio as their SIP provider?

    I have not migrated any clients, because the savings verus the cost to swithc is jsut not worth it.
    But I have recommended them to a number of people.


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