Twilio as a SIP provider



  • @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    I'm curious as to how significant "Secure Trunking" is: https://www.twilio.com/sip-trunking/pricing It's nice that the traffic from my PBX to Twilio is encrypted, but that seems a bit useless since once the traffic leaves Twilio there's no guarantee of encryption.

    The S7 is not encrypted nor at all secure. But it is also not on the Internet.

    Forgive my ignorance: S7?



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    I'm curious as to how significant "Secure Trunking" is: https://www.twilio.com/sip-trunking/pricing It's nice that the traffic from my PBX to Twilio is encrypted, but that seems a bit useless since once the traffic leaves Twilio there's no guarantee of encryption.

    The S7 is not encrypted nor at all secure. But it is also not on the Internet.

    Forgive my ignorance: S7?

    The phone network. S7 is the protocol of the PSTN. All things we refer to as "normal phone calls" go over it no matter where they originate or terminate.



  • I might be switching if I get some free time. Using VoicePulse now and it looks like Twilio kills them on pricing. We've also had a few issues lately with VoicePulse.



  • @scottalanmiller Ah, I didn't know that was the name of the protocol. Yeah, I know the PSTN isn't secure, which is one the reasons why I was questioning the actual value of having that connection between my PBX and Twilio secure.



  • @bnrstnr said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    I might be switching if I get some free time. Using VoicePulse now and it looks like Twilio kills them on pricing. We've also had a few issues lately with VoicePulse.

    Same here, I'm talking with MQ about doing a Twilio test this week. We've been on VP for forever and it's been great, but the pricing isn't competitive here, it doesn't look like.



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller Ah, I didn't know that was the name of the protocol. Yeah, I know the PSTN isn't secure, which is one the reasons why I was questioning the actual value of having that connection between my PBX and Twilio secure.

    Depends on what you want the security to do and what legal protections you want and whose responsibility you want it to be and so forth.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller Ah, I didn't know that was the name of the protocol. Yeah, I know the PSTN isn't secure, which is one the reasons why I was questioning the actual value of having that connection between my PBX and Twilio secure.

    Depends on what you want the security to do and what legal protections you want and whose responsibility you want it to be and so forth.

    I have fully encrypted calls between my desk phone and FreePBX instance on Vultr using standard SSL. Not using a specific VPN setup like IPSEC or OpenVPN.

    I need to get this added to my guide.



  • @JaredBusch said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller Ah, I didn't know that was the name of the protocol. Yeah, I know the PSTN isn't secure, which is one the reasons why I was questioning the actual value of having that connection between my PBX and Twilio secure.

    Depends on what you want the security to do and what legal protections you want and whose responsibility you want it to be and so forth.

    I have fully encrypted calls between my desk phone and FreePBX instance on Vultr using standard SSL. Not using a specific VPN setup like IPSEC or OpenVPN.

    I need to get this added to my guide.

    I'd like to see the setup for that.



  • I have been using Twilio with FreePBX for however it was that I first joined this form. Have also used inbound Twilio for 2 years to ACME packet SBC's for inbound. Have ported customers to them every month outside of our local market (away form Level 3 and Verizon) and by then end of the year all our extended area inbound will be twilio. We have a cross connect with them but OTT worked flawlessly.

    Have never had an outage. Best kept secret around.

    It is 6/6 billing, even when you are 10mmou. Its 60/60 for inbound and outbound. For your avergae single account 6/6 only nets you 12% savings, where there rates are 55% cheaper on inbound

    Outbound subaccount calling is difficult to configure. Inbound requires you peer to all of the market IP addresses in freePBX separately.

    But it works great.

    EDIT: If you are going to use them I suggest Telnyx for outbound. Its 6/6 pricing for .0075 for outbound. Its also easier to configure than outbound on twilio sub accounts (assuming youare reselling)



  • @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    I'm curious as to how significant "Secure Trunking" is: https://www.twilio.com/sip-trunking/pricing It's nice that the traffic from my PBX to Twilio is encrypted, but that seems a bit useless since once the traffic leaves Twilio there's no guarantee of encryption.

    The S7 is not encrypted nor at all secure. But it is also not on the Internet.

    Forgive my ignorance: S7?

    The phone network. S7 is the protocol of the PSTN. All things we refer to as "normal phone calls" go over it no matter where they originate or terminate.

    When we started providing phone service we were transcoding local interconnect ports to VoIP. How many years has it been since you got a "All Circuits Busy" message. lol. Good ol "breakage"



  • @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    I'm curious as to how significant "Secure Trunking" is: https://www.twilio.com/sip-trunking/pricing It's nice that the traffic from my PBX to Twilio is encrypted, but that seems a bit useless since once the traffic leaves Twilio there's no guarantee of encryption.

    The S7 is not encrypted nor at all secure. But it is also not on the Internet.

    Forgive my ignorance: S7?

    The phone network. S7 is the protocol of the PSTN. All things we refer to as "normal phone calls" go over it no matter where they originate or terminate.

    I believe you were referring to SS7 protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_System_No._7
    I used it like 10 years ago, when we were doing interconnection to national telco PSTN.



  • @triple9 S7 was the industry lingo even in the early 90's when I got started. Another term that died off in the nineties was "cloud" ironically lol. And speaking of bad security who remembers Frame Relay?



  • OMG. Frame Relay.



  • @scottalanmiller @bigbear I was lucky enough not to use FR in production, only in lab while I was studying for my Cisco certs. Nowdays, we don't use FR, and Cisco is less and less present in my work. Fortunatelly 😉



  • @bigbear oh, ok, I didn't know. As I recall, everybody was using term SS7 during that project.



  • @triple9 said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller @bigbear I was lucky enough not to use FR in production, only in lab while I was studying for my Cisco certs. Nowdays, we don't use FR, and Cisco is less and less present in my work. Fortunatelly 😉

    I never had to use it first hand. But I have managed Token ring networks. Even owned one at home.



  • @bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    I have been using Twilio with FreePBX for however it was that I first joined this form. Have also used inbound Twilio for 2 years to ACME packet SBC's for inbound. Have ported customers to them every month outside of our local market (away form Level 3 and Verizon) and by then end of the year all our extended area inbound will be twilio. We have a cross connect with them but OTT worked flawlessly.

    Have never had an outage. Best kept secret around.

    It is 6/6 billing, even when you are 10mmou. Its 60/60 for inbound and outbound. For your avergae single account 6/6 only nets you 12% savings, where there rates are 55% cheaper on inbound

    Outbound subaccount calling is difficult to configure. Inbound requires you peer to all of the market IP addresses in freePBX separately.

    But it works great.

    EDIT: If you are going to use them I suggest Telnyx for outbound. Its 6/6 pricing for .0075 for outbound. Its also easier to configure than outbound on twilio sub accounts (assuming youare reselling)

    I am confused. Is it 6/6 or 60/60 billing?



  • Twilio is per minute billing in/out. You got 10 seconds over you pay for the whole minute.

    Telnyx offers 6/6 billing in and out.

    My suggestion was to use Twilio for inbound .0045 and Telnyx for termination .0075.

    Twilio has no intention of going 6/6 as they don't want to deal with bad Average Seizure Rations (call center dialing). After you have established a couple MMOU with them they will make exceptions.



  • @bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Twilio is per minute billing in/out. You got 10 seconds over you pay for the whole minute.

    Telnyx offers 6/6 billing in and out.

    My suggestion was to use Twilio for inbound .0045 and Telnyx for termination .0075.

    Twilio has no intention of going 6/6 as they don't want to deal with bad Average Seizure Rations (call center dialing). After you have established a couple MMOU with them they will make exceptions.

    60/60 instead of 6/6 can make a big difference. At that rate of .0045 it is the same as VoIP.ms at .009, but VoIP.MS bills at 6/6.



  • Can you explain 60/60 vs 6/6?

    From the sound of it you get charged for a full 60 seconds whether you use the entire thing or not. 6/6 sound the same but only for 6 seconds?



  • @JaredBusch said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Twilio is per minute billing in/out. You got 10 seconds over you pay for the whole minute.

    Telnyx offers 6/6 billing in and out.

    My suggestion was to use Twilio for inbound .0045 and Telnyx for termination .0075.

    Twilio has no intention of going 6/6 as they don't want to deal with bad Average Seizure Rations (call center dialing). After you have established a couple MMOU with them they will make exceptions.

    60/60 instead of 6/6 can make a big difference. At that rate of .0045 it is the same as VoIP.ms at .009, but VoIP.MS bills at 6/6.

    In my experience you save about 12% on origination with 6/6, Maybe up to 20% on termination. For a single business usually much less on the latter even.

    You will never touch the .0045 average for origination twilio charges with .009 at 6/6.

    You should dump a CDR and round-up your minutes and apply the rate. I bet its at least 30% cheaper and likely more...



  • @coliver said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    Can you explain 60/60 vs 6/6?

    From the sound of it you get charged for a full 60 seconds whether you use the entire thing or not. 6/6 sound the same but only for 6 seconds?

    In telecom the first number is the minimum number of seconds you will be billed for the call. The second number is the minimum increments you will be billed in seconds for the remainder of the call.

    As a CLEC or wholesaler you will see a little of 6/1. On the retail side Origination (even Flowroute) is 60/60 where there outbound is 30/6.

    For retail Twilio has the best origination deal you will (.0045) find and Telnyx has the best termination I have seen.

    Wholesale requires minimum monthly commitments and at least 1mmou (million minutes of monthly usage). In wholesale we mostly LCR through providers that do not provide 100% guaranteed call completion. With Twilio on wholesale you can get down to .0025.



  • I should also mention, for at least 5 years, DID peering has dramatically cut wholesale/CLEC costs on the backend (with no benefit to the retail side).

    DID peering means carriers router calls directly to each other before hitting the telephone network. We charge each other .00001 or less for these connections.



  • A few numbers I crunched. I'm basing this off of minutes reported on my last Windstream bill for toll-free and long-distance calling. Trying to get accurate overall numbers digging through Altigen CDR is proving to be a challenge.

    Total toll-free minutes (6-second increments): 12010.8 ---- Cost for voip.ms = 228.21 ($0.019)
    Total toll-free minutes (60-second increments): 12756 ---- Cost for Twilio = 229.61 ($0.018)

    Long-distance minutes (6-second increments): 14100.1 --- Cost for voip.ms = 141.00 ($0.01)
    Long-distance minutes (60-second increments): 15203 -- Cost for Twilio = 106.52 ($0.007)



  • So a bit of savings there, but not massive. But not bad.



  • Incoming calls are free on both?



  • @scottalanmiller No. I'm trying to go through the Altigen CDR to try to get an accurate count of non-toll free inbound minutes.



  • @EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    @scottalanmiller No. I'm trying to go through the Altigen CDR to try to get an accurate count of non-toll free inbound minutes.

    Add a couple zeros and its a pretty big deal. Just look at annual savings for example.

    Inbound will be huge, 50% or more savings over voip.ms

    I would use Telnyx for outbound. Way easier to configure and its .0075 with 6/6 billing on outbound. Also, when you call out to 800 numbers Twilio will charge you, Telnyx will terminate the call for free (as it should be for the calling party)

    There are some other advantages with caller ID passing via Telnyx that Twilio will give you problems with if the number isn't in your DID list.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:

    So a bit of savings there, but not massive. But not bad.

    He is comparing those numbers against his Windstream bill. A number we have not see. But willbe significantly higher than those numbers.



  • Here are some numbers. Here are a few things to note. First, minutes are as accurate as I can get from my CDR cross-referencing tasks. Second, a "normal" Windstream bill is around $750. This month was the worst of the toll-fraud. Third, add about $5 / month for a Vultr instance for Twilio or Voip.ms. Fourth, savings will be event more when if cut out some DIDs, as we're not using more than 50 at the moment.

    Edit: Removed incorrect figures.


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