What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations



  • @scottalanmiller

    From discussions with you the other day, I kind of got the feeling you were moving away from recommending XS for new installs. Would you say that is true?



  • @BRRABill said in KVM vs XenServer:

    @scottalanmiller

    From discussions with you the other day, I kind of got the feeling you were moving away from recommending XS for new installs. Would you say that is true?

    Sadly, yes. Xen is great and if you know it and can skip XS, it's really amazing. But for most deployments, it's just not keeping pace and the XS distro is just doing stupid crap left and right.



  • I feel like this was just forked from another topic.



  • @DustinB3403 said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    I feel like this was just forked from another topic.

    You have good feelings.



  • These days, I think that Hyper-V and KVM are the go to solutions for the majority of cases.



  • At the most basic level, I don't think it really matters. You can get features for free, and with 3/4 of the platforms out there, you get even the advanced features thrown in for free as well --either natively or via 3rd party addons.

    Some of them take a little more leg work to get going than others, and some are dead simple.

    My personal recommendation is to be at least functionally familiar with the major players (Hyper-V, KVM, VMware, Xen, and (separately) XenServer). Especially since that can be done for free.



  • @scottalanmiller

    So what the the recommendation du jour? Hyper-V?



  • @dafyre said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    At the most basic level, I don't think it really matters. You can get features for free, and with 3/4 of the platforms out there, you get even the advanced features thrown in for free as well --either natively or via 3rd party addons.

    Some of them take a little more leg work to get going than others, and some are dead simple.

    My personal recommendation is to be at least functionally familiar with the major players (Hyper-V, KVM, VMware, Xen, and (separately) XenServer). Especially since that can be done for free.

    I've been perfectly happy with XS, but it seems like there are more and more "issues" with every release. Starting to wonder if moving to Hyper-V wouldn't be prudent.



  • I'm going Hyper-V. It has more features than even the paid Essentials Edition of VMware. Since pretty much all my production machines are Windows, I'm more comfortable in front of a Microsoft OS.



  • @BRRABill said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @dafyre said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    At the most basic level, I don't think it really matters. You can get features for free, and with 3/4 of the platforms out there, you get even the advanced features thrown in for free as well --either natively or via 3rd party addons.

    Some of them take a little more leg work to get going than others, and some are dead simple.

    My personal recommendation is to be at least functionally familiar with the major players (Hyper-V, KVM, VMware, Xen, and (separately) XenServer). Especially since that can be done for free.

    I've been perfectly happy with XS, but it seems like there are more and more "issues" with every release. Starting to wonder if moving to Hyper-V wouldn't be prudent.

    If you are comfortable enough with XenServer to want to try Hyper-V... Then wipe your XenServer and Switch to Hyper-V... then when you start getting comfy with Hyper-V, wipe it and try KVM... repeat ad nauseum, lol.

    At my last job, I switched between Windows and some Linux distro every few months, just to keep familiar with stuff.



  • @BRRABill said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @dafyre said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    At the most basic level, I don't think it really matters. You can get features for free, and with 3/4 of the platforms out there, you get even the advanced features thrown in for free as well --either natively or via 3rd party addons.

    Some of them take a little more leg work to get going than others, and some are dead simple.

    My personal recommendation is to be at least functionally familiar with the major players (Hyper-V, KVM, VMware, Xen, and (separately) XenServer). Especially since that can be done for free.

    I've been perfectly happy with XS, but it seems like there are more and more "issues" with every release. Starting to wonder if moving to Hyper-V wouldn't be prudent.

    Increase in issues is definitely an issue. The backing behind XS is more and more seeing it as a special case solution and its ecosystem isn't stepping up to change that.



  • Its going to take time for XenServer to catch up. Every since it became open source all that I've read so far is mainly performance improvement. Which is not bad at all but compare to what is being offered with KVM and Hyper-V.

    And since discovering Mangolassi, XenServer seems to be only popular here when Xen Orchestra is being used with it.



  • @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    Its going to take time for XenServer to catch up. Every since it became open source all that I've read so far is mainly performance improvement. Which is not bad at all but compare to what is being offered with KVM and Hyper-V.

    And since discovering Mangolassi, XenServer seems to be only popular here when Xen Orchestra is being used with it.

    The only reason to use any hyperviros if there are centralized tools for managing it.

    The only one that does this in a way most people understand is Hyper-V via the Hyper-V Manager GUI on a Windows workstation or server.

    KVM is as powerful as they come, but with no well known centralized management interface.



  • @JaredBusch

    Based on the management tools that is available to each hypervisors, free or paid. What is your preferred hypervisor?



  • @scottalanmiller said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    These days, I think that Hyper-V and KVM are the go to solutions for the majority of cases.

    You've come to the dark side 🙂



  • @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    And since discovering Mangolassi, XenServer seems to be only popular here when Xen Orchestra is being used with it.

    that's the only context in which it makes sense. That's its one main management tool.

    But saying that, you could say the same kind of thing for Vmware ESXi... it's only popular with vSphere to manage it. Of course, you need something to manage anything. When you have a management tool that is free and really good, there is no need for anything else and/or the two just become associated. That XS is only popular with XO just makes sense, as it is open, free and very powerful. XS has to have some tool, and that one is so good that no one else tries to compete.



  • @scottalanmiller said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    And since discovering Mangolassi, XenServer seems to be only popular here when Xen Orchestra is being used with it.

    that's the only context in which it makes sense. That's its one main management tool.

    But saying that, you could say the same kind of thing for Vmware ESXi... it's only popular with vSphere to manage it. Of course, you need something to manage anything. When you have a management tool that is free and really good, there is no need for anything else and/or the two just become associated. That XS is only popular with XO just makes sense, as it is open, free and very powerful. XS has to have some tool, and that one is so good that no one else tries to compete.

    Besides not supported better file systems for vm storage especially when using thin storage. I'm never a fan XenCenter it gets the job done but I much rather do things via CLI. I really hope XenServer devs integrated XO soon.



  • @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @scottalanmiller said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    And since discovering Mangolassi, XenServer seems to be only popular here when Xen Orchestra is being used with it.

    that's the only context in which it makes sense. That's its one main management tool.

    But saying that, you could say the same kind of thing for Vmware ESXi... it's only popular with vSphere to manage it. Of course, you need something to manage anything. When you have a management tool that is free and really good, there is no need for anything else and/or the two just become associated. That XS is only popular with XO just makes sense, as it is open, free and very powerful. XS has to have some tool, and that one is so good that no one else tries to compete.

    Besides not supported better file systems for vm storage especially when using thin storage. I'm never a fan XenCenter it gets the job done but I much rather do things via CLI. I really hope XenServer devs integrated XO soon.

    I think they should focus on things like not using ext3 first.



  • @stacksofplates said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @scottalanmiller said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    And since discovering Mangolassi, XenServer seems to be only popular here when Xen Orchestra is being used with it.

    that's the only context in which it makes sense. That's its one main management tool.

    But saying that, you could say the same kind of thing for Vmware ESXi... it's only popular with vSphere to manage it. Of course, you need something to manage anything. When you have a management tool that is free and really good, there is no need for anything else and/or the two just become associated. That XS is only popular with XO just makes sense, as it is open, free and very powerful. XS has to have some tool, and that one is so good that no one else tries to compete.

    Besides not supported better file systems for vm storage especially when using thin storage. I'm never a fan XenCenter it gets the job done but I much rather do things via CLI. I really hope XenServer devs integrated XO soon.

    I think they should focus on things like not using ext3 first.

    Totally agree. They should really have two version of XenServer. One can be the current one. And the other will include things like ext4, xfs, LVM thin.



  • Hyper-V is my go-to, unless an existing environment is something else and wouldn't make any business sense to make the switch.

    I highly recommend the new Hyper-V 2016 Cookbook.

    It'll help to kick you up to more of an expert level after combing through it well if you are a beginner. I read it even though I was already advanced, and still learned from it.



  • I've been avoiding HyperV because of management tool issues. With XenServer ESXi the tools just run, load them up and enter login details and off you go.

    But I found HyperV there was a lot of messing to get a workstation to talk (especially if your on a different network/domain)

    This might of gotten easier since the last time I tried HyperV 😀 but it put me off.



  • @hobbit666 said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    But I found HyperV there was a lot of messing to get a workstation to talk (especially if your on a different network/domain)

    Did you try 5Nine?



  • @scottalanmiller said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @hobbit666 said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    But I found HyperV there was a lot of messing to get a workstation to talk (especially if your on a different network/domain)

    Did you try 5Nine?

    For a single server and a lot of the basic config, it's great!



  • @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @stacksofplates said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @scottalanmiller said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @black3dynamite said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    And since discovering Mangolassi, XenServer seems to be only popular here when Xen Orchestra is being used with it.

    that's the only context in which it makes sense. That's its one main management tool.

    But saying that, you could say the same kind of thing for Vmware ESXi... it's only popular with vSphere to manage it. Of course, you need something to manage anything. When you have a management tool that is free and really good, there is no need for anything else and/or the two just become associated. That XS is only popular with XO just makes sense, as it is open, free and very powerful. XS has to have some tool, and that one is so good that no one else tries to compete.

    Besides not supported better file systems for vm storage especially when using thin storage. I'm never a fan XenCenter it gets the job done but I much rather do things via CLI. I really hope XenServer devs integrated XO soon.

    I think they should focus on things like not using ext3 first.

    Totally agree. They should really have two version of XenServer. One can be the current one. And the other will include things like ext4, xfs, LVM thin.

    Just use CentOS/Fedora/OpenSuse with KVM for that...



  • @hobbit666 said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    But I found HyperV there was a lot of messing to get a workstation to talk (especially if your on a different network/domain)

    This might of gotten easier since the last time I tried HyperV 😀 but it put me off.

    This! When I first switched to virtualization it was Hyper-V, and getting it to talk to my workstation was so unnecessarily difficult, I wanted so badly to just join it to the domain. 5Nine is awesome and totally remedied the awkward communication/credential problems. I ultimately bailed on Hyper-V and switched to XS around the same time I switched to Windows 10. We had just gotten a new virtual host and I wanted to try something new, and not paying the $350 a year for the 5nine license was a bonus.

    I can't for the life of me get into XO though, XenCenter just works and does everything that I need it to do. Maybe I like it because I was used to 5Nine? I don't know. It seems to be a pain to log into the web interface and fumble around trying to find the stuff I need when I'm already used to XenCenter. I haven't given it a true chance though.

    For what it's worth, I've had zero issues with XS since switching. For me, it's been a far better experience than Hyper-V was.



  • @bnrstnr said

    I can't for the life of me get into XO though, XenCenter just works and does everything that I need it to do. Maybe I like it because I was used to 5Nine? I don't know. It seems to be a pain to log into the web interface and fumble around trying to find the stuff I need when I'm already used to XenCenter. I haven't given it a true chance though.

    Backups and easier patching are two big plusses.

    I agree, though, that I find myself using XC for most tasks, and have had virtually no issues with XS. (Other than the recent one which I am sure is caused by older hardware.)



  • @bnrstnr said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @hobbit666 said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    But I found HyperV there was a lot of messing to get a workstation to talk (especially if your on a different network/domain)

    This might of gotten easier since the last time I tried HyperV 😀 but it put me off.

    This! When I first switched to virtualization it was Hyper-V, and getting it to talk to my workstation was so unnecessarily difficult, I wanted so badly to just join it to the domain. 5Nine is awesome and totally remedied the awkward communication/credential problems. I ultimately bailed on Hyper-V and switched to XS around the same time I switched to Windows 10. We had just gotten a new virtual host and I wanted to try something new, and not paying the $350 a year for the 5nine license was a bonus.

    I can't for the life of me get into XO though, XenCenter just works and does everything that I need it to do. Maybe I like it because I was used to 5Nine? I don't know. It seems to be a pain to log into the web interface and fumble around trying to find the stuff I need when I'm already used to XenCenter. I haven't given it a true chance though.

    For what it's worth, I've had zero issues with XS since switching. For me, it's been a far better experience than Hyper-V was.

    XO is a single pane of glass, it is built to do everything that XC can do and more. Including the backups, restoration etc.

    If you're not using XO for the backup capabilities, or any of the additional functionality, you're missing out on what it really shines at.



  • @DustinB3403 said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    If you're not using XO for the backup capabilities, or any of the additional functionality, you're missing out on what it really shines at.

    I'm not using it at all currently. I use Unitrends now for backups, and I don't think it's ideal, but it does work.

    Not to totally derail the thread, but the backups and stuff is what confuses me about XO, do you have to pay the $70/month to get automated backups and access to the other important features?



  • @bnrstnr said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    Not to totally derail the thread, but the backups and stuff is what confuses me about XO, do you have to pay the $70/month to get automated backups and access to the other important features?

    All open source and free.



  • @bnrstnr said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    @DustinB3403 said in What Are the Latest Virtualization Platform Recommendations:

    If you're not using XO for the backup capabilities, or any of the additional functionality, you're missing out on what it really shines at.

    I'm not using it at all currently. I use Unitrends now for backups, and I don't think it's ideal, but it does work.

    Not to totally derail the thread, but the backups and stuff is what confuses me about XO, do you have to pay the $70/month to get automated backups and access to the other important features?

    Nope. And with the simple install found here on ML it's a piece of cake to set up.