Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??



  • This is an intermittent issue that is really annoying.
    I have a workstation connected to a 750VA APC battery (one PC, two LCDs). I also have a color laser printer that is plugged into the same circuit. It's not in the battery at all, just pretty much in the same outlet as the battery.

    Every once in a while when they go to print something, the printer "comes alive" from sleep mode and all the stuff plugged into the battery restarts or shuts off! The battery also beeps.

    My only thought here is that the printer is causing a quick brownout or something, but that's what the fricken battery is supposed to be protecting from!

    Why would the printer (only sometimes) cause the battery to fail? Bad battery? Or bad circuit? Or something more nefarious?

    Unfortunately, there are only like two wall sockets that everything has to run from. So there is an extension cord with multiple 3-prong plugs in it which then feeds the printer and the battery and another surge protector for other stuff like speakers and stapler and lamp, etc.



  • When the printer tries to heat up the fuser from being in power save mode, it probably causes a voltage drop on that circuit.

    It sounds like the battery in your UPS is shot or something. If it's more than 3 years old just replace it. If you have the PowerChute software (or what ever it is for your model) you can run a load test and see if the battery can carry the load.



  • If it's not one of the smart ups models with the software, you can just unplug it to see if it will carry the load. This isn't the safest thing to do since you're unplugging the ground when you do this, but it's a down and dirty way to test the UPS.



  • If you replace the battery, do yourself and the next guy a favor and write the date that you installed it on the battery or the battery cover, so the next time this happens you know how old the battery is.



  • LPs draw a LOT of power, so that it is doing nasty things to the circuit isn't surprising. That the APC isn't able to handle it, though, is the concern. Maybe the battery is dead, or maybe the APC is back feeding into the circuit and being drawn on rather than just not getting power?



  • Unless the UPS is sized to handle the printer along with everything else, that can kill your UPS. And 750VA is much too small to connect even the smallest of desktop laser printers to.



  • @NashBrydges said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    Unless the UPS is sized to handle the printer along with everything else, that can kill your UPS. And 750VA is much too small to connect even the smallest of desktop laser printers to.

    The printer isn't plugged into the UPS, though.



  • I had the same issue at my old house. We had one wall outlet where I had the laser printer (one of the old Laserjet's built like a tank) and one of those "cheap" APC power strip looking UPS things plugged in. When the printer would come out of sleep mode the UPS would trip, and as @Mike-Davis above suggested, yep I had a voltage drop in the outlet itself. Same thing though the stuff plugged in the UPS would reset every time, even after I installed a fresh battery. My guess was something to do with the UPS being a switchover and not a true on-line UPS. My solution was to replace the power strip UPS with a "real" Tripp Lite UPS (one that looks like a box and takes 2 batteries).



  • @Mike-Davis said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    When the printer tries to heat up the fuser from being in power save mode, it probably causes a voltage drop on that circuit.

    It sounds like the battery in your UPS is shot or something. If it's more than 3 years old just replace it. If you have the PowerChute software (or what ever it is for your model) you can run a load test and see if the battery can carry the load.

    ^ this

    Also, stop buying cheap UPS under 5KVA - they're all shit.

    Actually - Made - Of - Turds - Guarenteed - To - Fail.

    Eaton makes nice stuff (over 5KVA) - so do many others.



  • APC is like the generic brand of UPS equipment. They make money on volume, and it shows. Get some real UPS equipment!



  • @guyinpv said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    Unfortunately, there are only like two wall sockets that everything has to run from. So there is an extension cord with multiple 3-prong plugs in it which then feeds the printer and the battery and another surge protector for other stuff like speakers and stapler and lamp, etc.

    Good lord

    There are these people who will come to your place of business and install more outlets. Elechickens or something. We call them sparky's but never to their face.



  • @MattSpeller Except my 'lectrical guy is, literally, "Mr. Sparky"



  • @jt1001001 said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    @MattSpeller Except my 'lectrical guy is, literally, "Mr. Sparky"

    I think I have one of his business cards

    stock-vector-a-man-with-an-electric-shock-113053468.jpg



  • The UPS is failing.

    As mentioned there is some other underlying power problem if a laser printer kicking on is causing a severe power voltage drop.

    But even still, the UPS is designed for this purpose and failing.

    Buy a new one.



  • @JaredBusch said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    The UPS is failing.

    As mentioned there is some other underlying power problem if a laser printer kicking on is causing a severe power voltage drop.

    But even still, the UPS is designed for this purpose and failing.

    Buy a new one.

    I bet you that the UPS is failing because of the recurring problems with the electrical. Basically, the APC is crappy and it was made to perform more work than it was willing to do so now it's just toast.



  • @Grey said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    @JaredBusch said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    The UPS is failing.

    As mentioned there is some other underlying power problem if a laser printer kicking on is causing a severe power voltage drop.

    But even still, the UPS is designed for this purpose and failing.

    Buy a new one.

    I bet you that the UPS is failing because of the recurring problems with the electrical. Basically, the APC is crappy and it was made to perform more work than it was willing to do so now it's just toast.

    Certainly the odds of one causing the other are high. And, as you stated before, APC are honestly low end crap.



  • Sounds like an unbalanced load on your APC.



  • @black3dynamite said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    Sounds like an unbalanced load on your APC.

    No, there is no load on the APC causing this. also these low end units canont be "unbalanced" there is only the one bus.



  • So let me get this strait. The typical APC batteries everybody gets at OfficeMax or Staples or whatever, are "crap".
    I take it "crap" means they are not active? Or in other words, they can't handle brownouts? Or it's just not quick enough to switch over to battery?

    Second, having an electrician install another outlet, I would assume, would accomplish nothing, as they are likely just going to run it off the same circuit anyway. Not like they are going to run a new circuit to one lonely office.

    Third, what is a common non-crap battery to look at?



  • @guyinpv said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    So let me get this strait. The typical APC batteries everybody gets at OfficeMax or Staples or whatever, are "crap".
    I take it "crap" means they are not active? Or in other words, they can't handle brownouts? Or it's just not quick enough to switch over to battery?

    Second, having an electrician install another outlet, I would assume, would accomplish nothing, as they are likely just going to run it off the same circuit anyway. Not like they are going to run a new circuit to one lonely office.

    Third, what is a common non-crap battery to look at?

    Basically, yes, they are low hanging cheap gear. They generally "work" but are certainly not the greatest gear in the world. They were better than a lot of other brands out there though. Today, I buy Eaton models for this size of hardware when given a choice.

    An extra outlet would be a waste, you are correct. A new circuit would be the likely solution, but honestly, an electrician needs to look at your setup to be sure.

    You could try it yourself by putting a volt meter on the line some place and watching it for a while as events happen, but likely this will just show you voltage drops, which we have already determined are happening simply from the description.

    You also want to measure the amperage on the circuit back at the breaker.



  • @guyinpv said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    So let me get this strait. The typical APC batteries everybody gets at OfficeMax or Staples or whatever, are "crap".

    Of course. That it's even available at a place like Staples hints at that. They only sell consumer gear. Outside of ink and cables at really high prices, all tech at those places is pretty much garbage.

    We all do it, cheap APCs as glorified surge protectors under a desk. But it's not good gear. It's just what we can get cheaply around the corner.

    Look at all of the other stuff that they sell, the desktops, laptops, monitors, printers, switches, routers and whatever are all crap in those places too.



  • @guyinpv said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    Second, having an electrician install another outlet, I would assume, would accomplish nothing, as they are likely just going to run it off the same circuit anyway.

    They only do what you tell them to do. Tell them you have a circuit issue and that you need another circuit and that's what they'll install.



  • @guyinpv said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    I take it "crap" means they are not active? Or in other words, they can't handle brownouts? Or it's just not quick enough to switch over to battery?

    That and they tend not to last long, the batteries die quickly, etc.



  • @Mike-Davis said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    When the printer tries to heat up the fuser from being in power save mode, it probably causes a voltage drop on that circuit.

    It sounds like the battery in your UPS is shot or something. If it's more than 3 years old just replace it. If you have the PowerChute software (or what ever it is for your model) you can run a load test and see if the battery can carry the load.

    ^This, usually happens all the time. I am going to disagree with some other comments about APC being just cheap, any other battery backup that is on 350 VA-1000VA will do the same when there is a printer plugged into the powersurge section of the battery backup. That is why all our printers are either plugged into a line conditioner or powersurge separated from a battery backup.

    No matter if it is Eaton, APC, Cyberpower, Tripplite the result have been the same with multiple customers having the same issue when they decide to plug it to the battery backup surge portion.



  • @dbeato said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    @Mike-Davis said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    When the printer tries to heat up the fuser from being in power save mode, it probably causes a voltage drop on that circuit.

    It sounds like the battery in your UPS is shot or something. If it's more than 3 years old just replace it. If you have the PowerChute software (or what ever it is for your model) you can run a load test and see if the battery can carry the load.

    ^This, usually happens all the time. I am going to disagree with some other comments about APC being just cheap, any other battery backup that is on 350 VA-1000VA will do the same when there is a printer plugged into the powersurge section of the battery backup. That is why all our printers are either plugged into a line conditioner or powersurge separated from a battery backup.

    No matter if it is Eaton, APC, Cyberpower, Tripplite the result have been the same with multiple customers having the same issue when they decide to plug it to the battery backup surge portion.

    Would you all stop fucking saying shit that is not damned true.

    @guyinpv clearly stated IN THE FIRST POST, that the printer is not in the UPS.



  • @JaredBusch Still is on the freaking same circuit...



  • @dbeato said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    @JaredBusch Still is on the freaking same circuit...

    Yes, and that should have zero effect on a quality UPS.



  • @JaredBusch So you are saying Eaton would be the solution correct? I am assuming you would not recommend a 750 VA from Eaton on this specific situation?



  • @dbeato said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    @JaredBusch So you are saying Eaton would be the solution correct? I am assuming you would not recommend a 750 VA from Eaton on this specific situation?

    I trust Eaton hardware over APC any day.

    But even a brand new APC unit would likely not have these problems here. They typicaly last a yearish before having issues.



  • @dbeato said in Laser printer sometimes trips an APC and shuts off computer??:

    @JaredBusch So you are saying Eaton would be the solution correct? I am assuming you would not recommend a 750 VA from Eaton on this specific situation?

    But are you talking about this: http://powerquality.eaton.com/3S750.aspx?cx=3?

    I would never recommend it for anything.


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