Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon
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@scottalanmiller I understand 2012 to 2012 r2 was a full update. That's also a server OS. Again, I'm talking about looking at this entirely from the end user perspective. The Grandfathers/mothers of the world. That's all.
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The kernel versioning tells the most complete story. We've always had to go there to know what is going on...
Kernel Desktop OS Server OS NT 4 NT 4 NT 4 NT 5 Windows 2000 Windows 2000 NT 5.1 Windows XP Server 2003 NT 5.2 Server 2003 R2 NT 6 Vista 2008 NT 6.1 Windows 7 2008 R2 NT 6.2 Windows 8 2012 NT 6.3 Windows 8.1 2012 R2 NT 6.4 / 10 Windows 10 2016 With Windows 10, MS decided to rebrand the kernel tree. But NT 10 is considered to simply be NT 6.4. It was 6.4 at some point, then renamed. So for now, the 10 branch is still part of the 6 one.
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@scottalanmiller What OS would you have my grandparents use? Chrome OS? Certainly not Ubuntu. The only option is OSX or Windows...period. When my grandmother decides she wants to scan old photos and send them to their friends what OS will the scanners support? BTW My grandma really did that - she wasn't half bad at working on Windows.
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
@scottalanmiller I understand 2012 to 2012 r2 was a full update. That's also a server OS.
It's the same OS, just branded (and licensed) for desktop or server. So if you understand one is a full update, you know that the other has to be. Same code top to bottom. The workstation just releases first as it doesn't have all of the add-on components and doesn't get as much testing time.
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
Again, I'm talking about looking at this entirely from the end user perspective. The Grandfathers/mothers of the world. That's all.
See our thread on Linux naming. Consumers are always confused and should not be running Windows, honestly. I totally understand that grandmothers won't understand this. But that's neither here nor there. In no way is that an Asus problem and as IT we should work hard to shield innocent vendors from misplaced anger from confused consumers, not repeat it.
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
Certainly not Ubuntu.
Ha. If the only other option is Windows, then obviously yes Ubuntu is better. It's simpler and easier. Of course it is just about the worst option in the Linux space, but it's far better than Windows for non-technical users (and yes, I've tested that.)
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
The only option is OSX or Windows...period.
That's just silly. Those are the two most extreme power user, high cost, not for normal consumers and certainly not for grandparents options. Those are the two I would specifically avoid in nearly all cases, especially the ones that you are talking about. Hardest to use, hardware to support, most costly.
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@scottalanmiller So you think the average grandfather will find Ubuntu easier/friendlier than OSX? Really?
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
When my grandmother decides she wants to scan old photos and send them to their friends what OS will the scanners support?
You've not been using Linux enough. One of the selling points is how much better support it has for peripherals. Ask my wife, Windows 10 she can barely ever get to print. Linux... prints without configuration. Every time, every printer.
I bet LInux will install find on that Asus that didn't take Windows 8.1, too. Supporting things is its wheelhouse.
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
@scottalanmiller So you think the average grandfather will find Ubuntu easier/friendlier than OSX? Really?
Yes, without any doubt. Will there be exceptions, sure. Will there be exceptions from those that haven't already used Mac OSX, somewhere yes, but almost none. I'm dead serious. It's apples and oranges. SO much easier for that crowd.
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BTW I do have LOTS of older clients that I still support that are home users. A lot of them are on OSX. Its a piece of cake and they love it. They love the fun photo apps. The OS easily updates itself.
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Of course for most grandparents, the far and away best answer is ChromeOS. It's the easiest and safest and cheapest. Only power users need consider anything more (or gamers, of course.)
For that that need more, Linux Mint is currently my go to choice. Far easier than Ubuntu. But if you are only willing to consider the worst of Linux, then even Ubuntu shows how far better most Linux systems are for casual users than Windows or Mac OSX. Everything "just works". And no hidden costs, no pushy updates, no third party tools needed, no "go buy this thing", almost no malware attacks, no "I got a phone call from Windows tech support and they need my passwords."
Easy, solid, free.
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
BTW I do have LOTS of older clients that I still support that are home users. A lot of them are on OSX. Its a piece of cake and they love it. They love the fun photo apps. The OS easily updates itself.
I'm not saying it is hard, it's just hard and expensive by comparison.
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So you seem to think that using a Linux desktop is hard. What have you tried to do that wasn't super simple? I can't think of any end user task that isn't as easy or, usually, far easier.
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But seriously, only real power users need more than a Chromebook. Heck, I only need a Chromebook. One of my developers moved to a Chromebook today. I'm on a Chromebook right now.
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@scottalanmiller If you think Ubuntu is easier than OSX.....One tiny example - installing my untended ScreenConnect* software on Ubuntu vs OSX/Windows.
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
@scottalanmiller If you think Ubuntu is easier than OSX.....One tiny example - installing my untended ScreenConnect* software on Ubuntu vs OSX/Windows.
Your grandfather installs ScreenConnect? I think you are dealing with IT workers, not grandparents here.
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Also, when my grandmothers machine running Mint has issues - where can she take it to get it fixed? Lots of my clients just walk into any Mac store and walk out with their issue resolved. I'm sorry...but to argue that Linux has better usability than OSX is crazy to me.
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
@scottalanmiller If you think Ubuntu is easier than OSX.....One tiny example - installing my untended ScreenConnect* software on Ubuntu vs OSX/Windows.
Actually this is an AWESOME example. For Windows or OSX you need ScreenConnect. Why do you even want that with Linux? What purpose is that going to serve? I run a lot of Linux systems, have never wanted that. Have no need for it. Only need it when supporting things like Windows or Mac OSX. The lack of need for it is actually a perfect example of where Windows needs third party tools, often expensive and complex ones, and still isn't as easy to support and maintain as my Korora desktop.
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@frodooftheshire said in Lenovo T470s vs X1 Carbon:
Also, when my grandmothers machine running Mint has issues - where can she take it to get it fixed?
So many places. THis is one of the weirdest arguments. Just call any company that supports Linux, there are so many people anxious for new customers. Just call one. Need a number, I'll get him one. In fact, again, I'd call this a win because there aren't the plethora of "corner stores" doing fake, unskilled desktop bench support preying on people who didn't know where to take their machines.
